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I think Ukraine at some point has to cave and perhaps get some minor concessions from Russia.

I think Ukraine at some point has to cave and perhaps get some minor concessions from Russia.

Absolutely not.  The West needs to keep supplying Ukraine so they can drive the Russians completely out including Donbas and Crimea. 

very rarely agree with Mehdi Hasan, but feel like he's on point here...


https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508819745138692105?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ


https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508820090631905280?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ


https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508820637866938377?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ

very rarely agree with Mehdi Hasan, but feel like he's on point here...


https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508819745138692105?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ


https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508820090631905280?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ


https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1508820637866938377?s=20&t=2xhsG75LjYmsFhHE6ur0VQ

He's not on point, he's a rabble-rousing shit-talker.

The only reason Ukraine is including any of that in their language for the negotiation, is because Russia has publicly stated those terms as part of their aim.  It's an easy concession for Ukraine to make, since they weren't going to be allowed to join NATO anyway-- dickface putin's constant conflicts in Donbas assured that.

The only way Hasan's opinion could be proven correct, is if Russia signs a peace treaty that includes complete withdrawal from all Ukrainian territories taken since this current invasion began in February 2022, with assurances that other than NATO membership being off-limits and Ukraine agreeing not to host foreign military bases on its soil, Russia will never again attempt to coerce or steer Ukraine's free determination of its sovereign national rights.

But there's no way that's going to happen, because Russia invaded for the purpose of stealing Ukrainian territory and subjugating Ukraine as a Russian vassal state, which means Hasan is a blowhard that's full of shit, and an unabashed apologist for dickface putin.

It's a very small fraction of Ukraine's overall fighting force.  I certainly don't approve of nazism, nor do I approve of fascism, hate, bigotry, and intolerance, in any other form it takes.

Right now it's Russia that is committing genocide, not the Azov battalion, so I'm okay with focusing on that as the primary problem.

At the end of this all, if any of the Azov or other neo-nazis are still alive, then I'd push for denouncement and renunciation of them.

Ukraine is being attacked, invaded, and slaughtered by their much larger neighbor in a clear act of pure aggression and illegal warfare- so I get they'll take all the help they can get. And from 2014-2021, Azov was amongst the very best fighters Ukraine had- hence their incorporation into the armed forces of the state. But it was a very dangerous thing and playing with fire to allow them so close to the levers of power and incorporate them into the countries armed forces. 

And Putin's propaganda about Ukraine being full of Nazis- well all his invasion could possibly do is empower and embolden that neo-nazi faction. Neo-nazi's don't take hold in a country when things are peaceful and times are relatively good. There are only around 1,500 members in the Azov unit and the far right ultra-nationalist parties only got around 2% of the vote in the last elections in Ukraine. So it's clearly not obviously accepted or widely adopted in Ukraine or the society. Destroying the country of Ukraine and turning it into rubble and creating nothing but death and chaos will only increase the chances the power of those nazis you claim to be fighting grows though.

Poland to end Russian oil imports; Germany warns on gas | TheHill

The EU claims it's moving away from Russian petrochemicals.  If this happens, it would be a significant shift that wouldn't reverse readily even if Putin stepped down.  It will make Russia dependent on China/India and with less influence in the West.

Ukraine is being attacked, invaded, and slaughtered by their much larger neighbor in a clear act of pure aggression and illegal warfare- so I get they'll take all the help they can get. And from 2014-2021, Azov was amongst the very best fighters Ukraine had- hence their incorporation into the armed forces of the state. But it was a very dangerous thing and playing with fire to allow them so close to the levers of power and incorporate them into the countries armed forces.

And Putin's propaganda about Ukraine being full of Nazis- well all his invasion could possibly do is empower and embolden that neo-nazi faction. Neo-nazi's don't take hold in a country when things are peaceful and times are relatively good. There are only around 1,500 members in the Azov unit and the far right ultra-nationalist parties only got around 2% of the vote in the last elections in Ukraine. So it's clearly not obviously accepted or widely adopted in Ukraine or the society. Destroying the country of Ukraine and turning it into rubble and creating nothing but death and chaos will only increase the chances the power of those nazis you claim to be fighting grows though.

Agree on both counts-- allowing Azov to remain, and become more powerful and visible, is a large part of their perception problem to this day, and it enabled Russia to capitalize on it.  And I also agree that this aggression will only serve to foment more hate and intolerance.  Ultimately, after this horrific slaughter comes to whatever end it may, the neo nazis are going to be the very smallest faction of hate-filled Ukrainians.  There's going to be significantly more hate and disgust and intolerance directed at Russia.  It's going to make the neo nazi rhetoric pale by comparison.

I think about my grandfather and his friends, who fought in WW2 and survived.  They were some of the kindest, gentlest, most tolerant people ever.  And they also hated the Japanese and Germans with the white hot passion of ten thousand burning suns.  And they weren't even watching their own homes burn and their own families get slaughtered.