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Topic: The Ukraine Topic

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CatsbyAZ

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #728 on: March 06, 2022, 12:56:28 PM »
So about Russia's SWIFT sanction, my bank has redeposited a recent gift I'd made to a Russian individual whom I'm friends with from their time as a college student in the U.S. (U of Minnesota). My bank is saying they no longer have a way to do business with Russian banks or bank accounts accessed by those within Russia.

It got me thinking about the 2 or 3 missionaries assigned to Russia in concert with my Dad's church and the IMB (International Missions Board based out of Richmond VA). Yes they would have American Bank accounts but the headache would be accessing those accounts while they are in Russia. By recommendation of our State Department, American citizens are advised to leave Russia, but missionaries usually ignore this. However, an inability to access their funds might force them back.

For anyone wondering why I send my Russian friend funds once in a while, it is because outside of Moscow and Saint Petersburg Russians live in Third World destitution and grow up in a surprisingly self-destructive culture that leaves too many broken beneath a very long and still active history of widespread corruption, bribery, alcoholism, inescapable poverty, and reinforced ignorance. $100 goes a long way.

If you 1) have 20 minutes to read and 2) don't mind weathering the disbelief over how depressing growing up and living in Russia is, check out this article:

https://medium.com/@meohoh/twelve-reasons-why-russia-sucks-9ceb0feddcd6
« Last Edit: March 06, 2022, 01:03:55 PM by CatsbyAZ »

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #729 on: March 06, 2022, 01:23:07 PM »
 live in Third World destitution and grow up in a surprisingly self-destructive culture that leaves too many broken beneath a very long and still active history of widespread corruption, bribery, alcoholism, inescapable poverty, and reinforced ignorance. $100 goes a long way.

Sounds a lot like the cities and towns that have been highly impoverished and crime-ridden for decades here in the U.S.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #730 on: March 06, 2022, 01:38:38 PM »
not sure why you posted this

it doesnt answer my question

where is the UN in all of this
the UN is a toothless, feckless, useless organization that has no real power. They've done nothing about American or Israeli atrocities for decades, in large part because America has used it's veto power to block any UN resolutions or action as one of the permanent members of the UN security council. 

They can't do anything now either. Russia also has veto power as one of the five permanent members of the UN security council.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #731 on: March 06, 2022, 01:47:45 PM »
You history buffs can tell me about this. Putin keeps talking about "denazification" and that sounds pretty weird. I'm aware of the connections to supposed neo-Nazis. However, western folks tend to think of Nazis as genocidal racists. Does it have a different connotation in Russia? Germany attacked Russia as sort of a sign of western domination of Europe, and Ukraine was seen as key to the operation.
Yeah, so they aren't supposed neo-nazis, they are neo-nazis. And the Ukraine gov't has given political cover and made concessions to some of these neo-nazi groups and actually incorporated some of them into their official armed forces. I can link you article after article from news source after news source, even ones from Bellingcat (who have been accused of just being a CIA front) - that prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I think this is just Putin using a small kernel of truth- and stretching it out massively to fit his narrative in his justification of this war. Every country has to come up with bullsh*t reasons and propaganda to start an invasion of another country. US are experts at this. There is a small, but dangerous neo-nazi element in Ukraine- with hooks into the gov't and armed forces- and Putin has tried to use this as propaganda to say the entire population is full of neo-nazis (even though the neo-nazi political parties got less than 3% of the vote in their last elections)  and the entire gov't are neo-nazis- which is obviously ridiculous and not true. 

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #732 on: March 06, 2022, 01:55:17 PM »
Putin uses the term "Nazi" to refer to enemies, he knows it arouses feelings in Russia.  It's simply a tactic to justify the invasion of Ukraine internally.

I am fairly sure the morale of the Russian soldier is pitiful and they have to be given some justification for shooting other Russian speaking folks who look like them.

It reminds me in some few respects of the US Civil War.
this. +1.

Mdot21

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #733 on: March 06, 2022, 01:56:39 PM »
Sounds a lot like the cities and towns that have been highly impoverished and crime-ridden for decades here in the U.S.
yeah, tell me about it. Detroit says what up. before this war and the crippling sanctions on Russia- you'd probably be better off living in a destitute Russian city than in most neighborhoods in Detroit. 

MaximumSam

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #734 on: March 06, 2022, 01:58:39 PM »
Yeah, so they aren't supposed neo-nazis, they are neo-nazis. And the Ukraine gov't has given political cover and made concessions to some of these neo-nazi groups and actually incorporated some of them into their official armed forces. I can link you article after article from news source after news source, even ones from Bellingcat (who have been accused of just being a CIA front) - that prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I think this is just Putin using a small kernel of truth- and stretching it out massively to fit his narrative in his justification of this war. Every country has to come up with bullsh*t reasons and propaganda to start an invasion of another country. US are experts at this. There is a small, but dangerous neo-nazi element in Ukraine- with hooks into the gov't and armed forces- and Putin has tried to use this as propaganda to say the entire population is full of neo-nazis (even though the neo-nazi political parties got less than 3% of the vote in their last elections)  and the entire gov't are neo-nazis- which is obviously ridiculous and not true.
What asking is when Russians use the term "nazi" do they think of Nazis less as anti-Jew and more as anti-Russia.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #735 on: March 06, 2022, 02:15:33 PM »
What asking is when Russians use the term "nazi" do they think of Nazis less as anti-Jew and more as anti-Russia.
I think it means almost nothing about anti-Jew, I think.

Nazis were "bad", duh, aside from the antiSemitism thing.  You might notice at times Dems here demonizing Reps with extreme terms, and vice versa.

I think sending money to a friend in Russia is a great thing, if able to do it.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #736 on: March 06, 2022, 02:17:29 PM »
I still don't know what anyone expects the UN to be able to do here, even if Russia is not on the SC.  The main body voted against the invasion recently, and?

Nada.

I don't know what anyone expects NATO to do about this either beyond being on alert and trying to send stuff to Ukraine.  There must be an open link from Kyiv west that is still open, I expect that to get closed soon, if not already.

MaximumSam

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #737 on: March 06, 2022, 02:31:30 PM »
I think it means almost nothing about anti-Jew, I think.

Nazis were "bad", duh, aside from the antiSemitism thing.  You might notice at times Dems here demonizing Reps with extreme terms, and vice versa.

Sure, but without the Holocaust, the Nazis would be another also-ran of history, instead of a constant boogeyman that we compare everyone we hate to. But Russia fought a notoriously brutal war against the Nazis, and seems important to think about the nazis having a different connotation in Russia as opposed to here. We think of neo-nazis as glorified KKK members, while Ukrainian neo-nazis probably have a bit of that, but probably a different motivation.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #738 on: March 06, 2022, 02:36:48 PM »
Take away the Holocaust, and Hitler and the Nazis still started by far the most destructive war in history.  I don't think they'd be any also ran in history.  

MaximumSam

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #739 on: March 06, 2022, 02:38:29 PM »
Take away the Holocaust, and Hitler and the Nazis still started by far the most destructive war in history.  I don't think they'd be any also ran in history. 
I think they almost unquestionably would be. At least here.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #740 on: March 06, 2022, 02:44:28 PM »
WW II led to the most casualties in any US war as well, save the Civil.  The Nazis probably would have had a more effective war machine had they more or less tolerated the Jews.  Many German Jews fought effectively in WW One, and a couple were influential in technical matters.

Haber comes to mind, though he tried to act like he wasn't Jewish.  Think of the "Einsteins" who left Germany because of Hitler.

Cincydawg

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Re: The Ukraine Topic
« Reply #741 on: March 06, 2022, 02:46:05 PM »
I think, rightly or wrongly, that neoNazis are basically against anyone who isn't like "us".  Nationalism, no diversity, no tolerance for those who are different.  And ironically they are fighting against many folks who are the same.

 

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