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Topic: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?

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medinabuckeye1

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IMHO, these nine teams control their own destiny wrt the CFP:
  • 7-0 #1 Bama  
  • 7-0 #2 tOSU
  • 6-0 #3 Clemson
  • 7-0 #4 Notre Dame
  • 6-1 #5 LSU
  • 6-1 #6 UGA
  • 6-1 #11 UF
  • 5-1 #14 Kentucky
  • 5-0 #16 NCST

What about #6 Michigan?  The Wolverines are 6-1 and winning out would include beating #24 MSU, #18 PSU, the B1G-W Champion, and taking out #2 tOSU which should open up a spot for the Wolverines, right?  Well, in theory it should, but what if Bama loses either to LSU or in the SECCG such that we end up with a 12-1 SEC Champion and an 11-1 or 12-1 non-Champion Bama?  I'm not saying that Michigan wouldn't get in or even that I don't think they should, just that I am not sure that it is a done deal.  

The B1G's other plausible CFP contender (barring absolute chaos) is #19, 5-1 Iowa.  Winning out for them would include a road win over #18 PSU and a win in Indianapolis in the B1GCG.  They would need more help than Michigan because in addition to likely being behind a 1-loss non-Champion Bama and the potential undefeated or 1-loss ACC and SEC Champions they would also struggle to get ahead of potential 1-loss B12 and/or PAC Champions.  Additionally, I'm not sure that a 1-loss B1G Champion Iowa would necessarily be ahead of a 1-loss Notre Dame.  

Waiting for upsets:
The B12:
  • 6-1 #7 Texas
  • 5-1 #9 Oklahoma
  • 5-1 #13 West Virginia
The PAC:
  • 5-1 #12 Oregon
  • 5-1 #25 WSU
  • 5-1 nr Colorado

Neither the PAC nor B12 can produce an undefeated Champion so for now they are waiting for upsets.  They also have the same potential Bama problem that afflicts both Michigan and Iowa.  

Ranked teams not already mentioned:
  • 6-0 #10 UCF - Would need absolute chaos to get close to the CFP.  
  • 5-2 #15 Washington - Would need absolute chaos to get close to the CFP.  
  • 5-2 #17 aTm - If they won out and LSU beat Bama (but otherwise won out) then they would be in a 3-way tie for the SEC-W.  I'm  not sure how that would be settled.  Even if they won that, they would still have a problem because Bama could still be 11-1 and own a H2H win over them.  
  • 4-2 #18 PSU - Would need absolute chaos to get close to the CFP.  
  • 6-0 #20 Cincy - Would need absolute chaos to get close to the CFP.  
  • 6-0 #21 USF - Would need absolute chaos to get close to the CFP.  
  • 4-2 #22 MissSt - The good news is that both of their losses were to non-divisional SEC foes (UF, UK).  The bad news is that they have two losses and they haven't played any of the best three teams in the SEC-W yet.  
  • 4-2 #23 Wisconsin - They still control their own destiny in the B1G but with two bad losses (BYU because they are a bad team and M because of the score) they would need absolute chaos to get close to the CFP.  
  • 4-2 #24 Michigan State - Like Wisconsin they still control their own destiny in the B1G but with two losses they would need a LOT of help get get there.  

MrNubbz

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2018, 02:05:47 PM »
If they win out and win the Big it's a tough call if Bama/ND/Clemson remain undefeated.That would open a real bag of snakes.Bama would have knocked off LSU and either Fla or Gawja.Choosing that 4th team would be like sorting thru a knocked over tackle box
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 02:08:25 PM by MrNubbz »
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ELA

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2018, 02:11:17 PM »
They absolutely do.

I mean if Bama, Clemson and Notre Dame run the table, those three spots are spoken for.  Honestly, that might be UMs best bet is to have those 3 run the table, because that means LSU, Florida and Georgia all have 2 losses.  It means NC State is a 1 loss non ACC champ.  It means OSU is a 1 loss non conference champ that UM beat.

UM is clearly in over any of those teams.  Yeah, it means their ceiling is #4, but who cares, they are in.

I think it's worse for them the more 1 loss teams you throw in the mix.  Like NC State gets weird and runs the table, but then you still have a 1 loss non champ Clemson.  And LSU beats Bama, but Georgia beats them in the SEC Championship so you have 1 loss SEC Georgia, plus 1 loss non division champ Alabama.  I think that's where things get murkier.

Alabama and Clemson running the table basically means (in this scenario) it's UM or a 1 loss Big XII champ for that 4th spot.

Cincydawg

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2018, 02:53:22 PM »
A 12-1 {5 conference champ is going to be in except in extraordinary years.  This is around the time when folks fret over having 5 undefeated teams at end of the year.  It won't happen.  We'll have one or two.

ND is in position to suck up a slot, possibly making this an unusual year.

FearlessF

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2018, 02:58:55 PM »
yup, if one of the 1 loss SEC teams runs the table and leaves a 1 loss Bama, we know how that will go
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Kris60

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2018, 03:07:14 PM »
yup, if one of the 1 loss SEC teams runs the table and leaves a 1 loss Bama, we know how that will go
Not necessarily.  If Michigan is a one loss Big Ten champion with impressive wins of its own that could trump and, IMO, would trump Bama.  A two loss Ohio St team that got smoked by Iowa wouldn’t be the same as a one loss Michigan who lost by a TD to ND in Week 1 of the season.

I really can’t see Michigan running the table and not making it to the CFP.

Mdot21

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2018, 03:49:37 PM »
Michigan wins out and they finish 12-1 with a B1G title they are in. Period.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2018, 04:03:41 PM »
Not necessarily.  If Michigan is a one loss Big Ten champion with impressive wins of its own that could trump and, IMO, would trump Bama.  A two loss Ohio St team that got smoked by Iowa wouldn’t be the same as a one loss Michigan who lost by a TD to ND in Week 1 of the season.

I really can’t see Michigan running the table and not making it to the CFP.
Based on what we have seen from the committee thus far, I think the key factor for Ohio State being left out there was not the bad loss to Iowa, it was the two losses.  The committee has been remarkably forgiving of bad losses but they have been completely inflexible about the number of losses..  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2018, 04:12:07 PM »
If they win out and win the Big it's a tough call if Bama/ND/Clemson remain undefeated.That would open a real bag of snakes.Bama would have knocked off LSU and either Fla or Gawja.Choosing that 4th team would be like sorting thru a knocked over tackle box
There is no bag of snakes if Bama, ND, Clemson, and Michigan all win out.  Michigan is easily in because Bama, Clemson, and Notre Dame would get the first three spots at 13-0, 12-0, and 13-0 while Michigan would obviously get the fourth spot at 12-1.  There might be some debate if either Texas, Oklahoma, or West Virginia and either Oregon, Washington State, or Colorado also finish 12-1 but I am absolutely confident that Michigan would win that debate.  
Where I think it gets murkier is if Notre Dame and either Clemson or NCST both run the table but the SEC produces a one-loss Bama AND a one-loss Champion.  In that case Notre Dame and the 13-0 ACC Champion would get the top two spots but the other two would be up in the air between the 12-1 SEC Champion and an Alabama team that finished either 12-1 or 11-1 without an SEC Championship.  
It is funny, the CFP has made the rooting interests of NC Contenders more similar to the rooting interests of CBB Bubble teams rather than the traditional rooting interests of CFP Contenders.  For as long as I have been a fan of CFB, whenever my team was in the hunt I always had an interest in rooting FOR upsets in other conferences.  Now, not so much.  Now, all the rest of us (fans of non-SEC teams) are better off if Bama goes 13-0 because in that case there will almost certainly only be one SEC team in the CFP.  

ELA

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2018, 04:18:49 PM »
Now, not so much.  Now, all the rest of us (fans of non-SEC teams) are better off if Bama goes 13-0 because in that case there will almost certainly only be one SEC team in the CFP.  
Yup, that's what I pointed out above.  If Clemson and Alabama win out, they remove any chance of those conferences getting 2 teams in, because it means NC State has a loss, and LSU, Florida and Georgia all have 2.  So if you are concerned with seeding then I guess Alabama and Clemson losing opens up that path.  In an 8 team playoff, that would be more relevant.  In a 4 team, meh.  Clemson and Alabama winning out removes any chance of a second ACC or SEC team stealing a bid.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 04:21:20 PM by ELA »

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2018, 04:19:37 PM »
I was honestly surprised by the question.

If Michigan wins out, the max available P5 undefeateds will be 3. And LSU and Georgia would have 2 losses each.

On the other hand, if Alabama, Clemson, or ND lose, there's still not an obvious way for Michigan to be left out, either. The main conversation about ND and Clemson to date has been about their weak schedules. If they lose, they have very little chance of backing in.

Alabama could back in with a loss, but if the final five to pick from is (1) 12-0 ND, (2) 13-0 Clemson, (3) 12-1 Michigan, (4) 12-1 LSU/Georgia (whichever was the SEC champ), and (5) 11-1/12-1 Alabama (either without a division or conf championship, depending on whether they lose to LSU or UGa) ... that's not Michigan's worst case scenario, it's Alabama's worst case scenario. Last year, the SEC got in two because the other candidates were less good than that.

If Alabama has 1-loss without a division or conference championship, against that list of 4 candidates, it's automatically out. And, even if one of those 4 eliminates itself, Alabama's only chances for the 4th spot are to (a) be running against a 2-loss team or (b) a 0- or 1-loss team with a very bad schedule, like UCF.

Meanwhile: holy prematurity.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 04:26:09 PM by Anonymous Coward »

medinabuckeye1

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2018, 04:27:07 PM »
Alabama could back in with a loss, but if the final five to pick from is (1) 12-0 ND, (2) 13-0 Clemson, (3) 12-1 Michigan, (4) 12-1 LSU/Georgia (whichever was the SEC champ), and (5) 11-1/12-1 Alabama (either without a division or conf championship, depending on whether they lose to LSU or UGa) ... that's not Michigan's worst case scenario, it's Alabama's worst case scenario. Last year, the SEC got in two because the other candidates were less good than that.
Eh, it is Michigan's worst case scenario as well.  It might be the case the Michigan would get in over Bama in that case, but it is the only scenario I can dream up in which there is even a question for a 12-1 Michigan and thus, it is their worst case scenario.  
Now I will point out that I started this thread by saying: "I'm not saying that Michigan wouldn't get in or even that I don't think they should, just that I am not sure that it is a done deal."  So please note that I am not necessarily disagreeing with your take that Michigan would get in anyway, just pointing out that there would at least be a discussion.  In any other scenario I do not think that there would even be a discussion.  

Anonymous Coward

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2018, 04:47:17 PM »
I do think that we are exceedingly unlikely to ever have 2 teams rep the same conference unless the other candidates trying to get in have (a) 2-losses, (b) are 1-loss ND, or (c) non-P5. I want to say it's impossible ... but I don't believe in that word. So you got me on that technicality.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 04:49:04 PM by Anonymous Coward »

Cincydawg

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Re: Playoff Picture heading into Week 8 - Does M control their own destiny?
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2018, 05:26:33 PM »
The real question will be whether a 12-0 ND get selected or a 12-1 P5 conference champ.  That will depend on SOS among other things.

ND's SOS has taken a beating this year, though it usually is solid to very good.  It won't get better.

If you compare that to a theoretical 12-1 LSU, I think LSU is a clear winner.  So would be a 12-1 Michigan, though there you have H2H at play, so maybe not.

An 11-1 Bama might make it, but that depends on who else is around.  Last year they were up against 2 loss conference champs.


 

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