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Topic: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?
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TresselownsUM · « **Reply #14 on:** January 03, 2018, 11:38:11 AM »

IU and Minny would of had a very good chance at a bowl in a 8 conference schedule vs 9 game conference schedule.

mcwterps1 · « **Reply #15 on:** January 03, 2018, 01:18:28 PM »

Yes.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #16 on:** January 03, 2018, 08:21:41 PM »

Quote from: TresselownsUM on January 03, 2018, 09:03:56 AM

You could make an argument for the Big Ten, SEC or ACC. The bowl season was a nice notch in the Big Ten's belt, but it didn't "prove" anything. It's just nice that the conference is back to being in the discussion, wherever you rank it.

I disagree on some level, I do think these games matter in terms of perception and can help give a better idea of who's best. The regular season games also mattered, so they need to be looked at in total but the bowls give a chance to see each conferences best teams square off, and also allow us to see some mid tier teams square off, and those games don't happen enough during the regular season so we need these to judge teams and conferences.

I'm pretty sure everyone thought after the first couple of teams in the SEC that the SEC was not good, and that theory if you will played out on the field. The PAC 12 took it on the chin big time, that can't be dismissed. Do I think the PAC 12 is the worst conference? I dunno, but after seeing it go 1-8 I think it was I feel pretty confident in saying the ACC and BIG were better.

I'm tired of hearing things like "auburn didn't want to be there" Don't try and discredit UCF for playing a good game. Isn't coaching, motivating a team part of what makes a program? If Auburn can't get up to play in a new years day bowl game that's a program issue, and means the team and coaching staff is flawed in that regard.

This is all true.....but it's also true that 20 year olds are emotional. When your last game potentially puts you into the national championship playoff and you lose it, no, you're not highly motivated to win the Whatever Bowl against Central WhoCares. They should be 100% motivated no matter the circumstances, but they're not.

I'm just glad Auburn isn't trying to become the 2nd two-loss national champion right now....

TyphonInc · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2018, 11:24:12 PM »

Best Conference comes down to the 4-5 OOC games played, not the 8-9 in conference.
Those in conference games gives us the pecking order of the conference, not how strong it is relative to others.

Unfortunately, those OOC games there are typically only 2 against P5 competition. So, doing so well in the Bowls does make the conference look good, but there are not enough data points to say for sure.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2018, 06:44:09 AM »

Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on January 03, 2018, 08:21:41 PM

This is all true.....but it's also true that 20 year olds are emotional. When your last game potentially puts you into the national championship playoff and you lose it, no, you're not highly motivated to win the Whatever Bowl against Central WhoCares. They should be 100% motivated no matter the circumstances, but they're not.

I'm just glad Auburn isn't trying to become the 2nd two-loss national champion right now....

I'm glad that was not the case for the boys that comprise my favorite team.

Kris61 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2018, 07:30:14 AM »

I'm on the fence when it comes to motivation in bowl games. I've seen enough weird results to believe there is something to it but it seems like a slap in the face to the winning team to simply dismiss it as the other team not caring.

The other thing that bugs me about the motivation argument is football is a physical sport. Yeah, maybe you don't come in as motivated and prepared as you should but as soon as someone starts imposing their will on you physically I think your motivation kicks in quickly. It doesn't take 3 quarters for that to kick in. It would take about 3 plays. You ever had someone give you a confrontational shove? Your motivation to give them a shove back goes from 0-100 in a hurry.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #20 on:** January 04, 2018, 07:40:54 AM »

Quote from: Kris61 on January 04, 2018, 07:30:14 AM

I'm on the fence when it comes to motivation in bowl games. I've seen enough weird results to believe there is something to it but it seems like a slap in the face to the winning team to simply dismiss it as the other team not caring.

The other thing that bugs me about the motivation argument is football is a physical sport. Yeah, maybe you don't come in as motivated and prepared as you should but as soon as someone starts imposing their will on you physically I think your motivation kicks in quickly. It doesn't take 3 quarters for that to kick in. It would take about 3 plays. You ever had someone give you a confrontational shove? Your motivation to give them a shove back goes from 0-100 in a hurry.

Yep, that's just fan-boy bulljive - a convenient excuse for when their favorite team loses. I've seen LSU fans use it, as if the LSU players weren't motivated to play Notre Dame on New Years Day. Yeah.. OK.

Players are motivated to play the game they love whether it's at Mercedes Benz or in the park by my house.

Entropy · « **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2018, 10:13:08 AM »

When Auburn scored back to back TD's in the 3rd quarter, they certainly appeared energized and excited on the sideline....

ELA · « **Reply #22 on:** January 04, 2018, 11:10:18 AM »

Quote from: Entropy on January 04, 2018, 10:13:08 AM

When Auburn scored back to back TD's in the 3rd quarter, they certainly appeared energized and excited on the sideline....

Yeah, ESPN has REEEEEAAALLLLY been pushing that narrative this year. Didn't hear it so much in years prior.

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #23 on:** January 04, 2018, 12:25:07 PM »

I remember the 1998 Alamo Bowl where Kansas State was basically all but guaranteed to win their CCG, so the #2 and #3 affiliated B12 bowls had already made their selections for the next teams down before the game was played. Then KSU lost, and the #4 team in the country got demoted to the 4th-place bowl affiliation to face upstart Purdue (who I think was just barely ranked, around #23 or so).

I believe that KSU team was more talented top-to-bottom than Purdue. I also believe they felt entitled to the win because they were the #4 team and Purdue didn't deserve to be on that field with them. I think they were not mentally ready for a Purdue team led by a gun-slinging Drew Brees and coached by Cowboy Joe that had a chip on their shoulder and something to prove.

Purdue got out to an early lead, and was up 27-13 at the end of the 3rd. In the 4th quarter, I think KSU's talent and depth started to wear, and they had a 21-point 4 quarter, taking the lead and requiring some Brees heroics for Purdue to steal the win.

I really honestly think KSU didn't "come to play" in that game and it took them getting punched in the mouth a few quarters to decide to show up.

847badgerfan · « **Reply #24 on:** January 04, 2018, 12:30:24 PM »

In that scenario, maybe, but that's a whole lot different than getting "bumped" from an MNC game to a NYD game against another top team.

ELA · « **Reply #25 on:** January 04, 2018, 02:56:35 PM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2018, 12:30:24 PM

In that scenario, maybe, but that's a whole lot different than getting "bumped" from an MNC game to a NYD game against another top team.

I don't even hate the theory, so long as it's applied consistently. Bowl results are the ESPN be all and end all of conference strength ratings, until they disappeared from their broadcasts mostly this bowl season, other than to mention how unmotivated Auburn was...which they last trotted out when Alabama lost to Utah. I think the Group of 5 team is 3-1 in the NY6, so you want to go with that theory, fine. But I didn't hear them discuss Wisconsin overcoming it last year; or how it fell Arizona against Boise State.

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #26 on:** January 04, 2018, 03:01:31 PM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on January 04, 2018, 12:30:24 PM

In that scenario, maybe, but that's a whole lot different than getting "bumped" from an MNC game to a NYD game against another top team.

Regardless of its record or ranking, no 20 year old looks at the words "Central Florida" and thinks "top team".

OrangeAfroMan · « **Reply #27 on:** January 04, 2018, 03:08:41 PM »

I'm really tired of people pretending this isn't a thing.

It happens all the time - often in the regular season in conference games. The top 10 big-boy team has an unusually close win vs some sub-.500 squad. People shrug and go on to the next week where the strong team is refocused and does well.

But bowls are different - there is no game to move on to the next week. There is no shrugging, just comically resounding conclusions based on the one game.

Sometimes you have a less-talented team beat a strong team due to a letdown. Sometimes not. When the talent disparity is ample, it's safe to say motivation/focus/willpower was lacking. You have 85 kids from 18-23 years old and the team goes from 1 game away from the NC to the Blubonnet Bowl vs. North Central Tech (in reputation - ie non-sexy programs).

x% of the time, there's going to be a letdown. Now I'm not suggesting it's 100% of the time, and anyone suggesting it happens 0% of the time is wrong.

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Topic: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

TresselownsUM

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

mcwterps1

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

OrangeAfroMan

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

TyphonInc

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

847badgerfan

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

Kris61

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

847badgerfan

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

Entropy

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

ELA

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

betarhoalphadelta

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

847badgerfan

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

ELA

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

OrangeAfroMan

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?

OrangeAfroMan

Re: OT - Did going 7-1 in its bowls prove the B1G is the best conference?