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Topic: Michigan State (1-1) at #13 Michigan (1-1) Post Game
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CatsbyAZ · « **Reply #42 on:** November 02, 2020, 09:40:12 AM »

Quote from: ELA on October 30, 2020, 11:55:34 AM

Yeah, I think if Michigan wants to cover, they will. I could also see them up 30ish after 3, and a late score allowing MSU to cover

Michigan 40, Michigan State 17

Back in this thread to announce how dead WRONG I was. Had Michigan State as ranked 12-14th in the conference based on roster turnover, new coaching staff, and the Rutgers loss. Mel Tucker & Co showed a lot of guts by hanging tough and going away from the safer original game plan to target Michigan’s CBs downfield. As for all the beat writers wasting no time in rushing out a slew of negative Harbaugh headlines, it’s hard to disagree that Saturday might’ve been his worst loss as Michigan’s HC. Last time we saw this much Harbaugh bashing was 2018’s season opening clunker Vs Notre Dame. With the NFL yet to start, sports radio across the nation led every Monday/Tuesday show by unloading on Harbaugh. Michigan then reeled off 10 straight wins and all was happy until Ohio State. At this point, 5-2 going into this season’s Ohio State qualifies as somewhere between healthy optimism and unrealistic.

Good thing for Harbaugh he opted away from the usual khakis because his blue pants better hid the crapping of himself he did all Saturday afternoon, although for us who watched what was going on on the field, we knew better.

MrNubbz · « **Reply #43 on:** November 02, 2020, 09:57:14 AM »

Quote from: CatsbyAZ on November 02, 2020, 09:40:12 AM

Back in this thread to announce how dead WRONG I was. Had Michigan State as ranked 12-14th in the conference based on roster turnover, new coaching staff, and the Rutgers loss. Mel Tucker & Co showed a lot of guts by hanging tough and going away from the safer original game plan to target Michigan’s CBs downfield.

Sparty took some horrible roster losses the last 3 seasons whether grades,off field trouble or transfers was hard from to watch from staunch to sliding.Maybe Mel can get them on track,I don't know that anyone had MSU staying within 7 let alone winning last Saturday

ELA · « **Reply #44 on:** November 02, 2020, 10:07:26 AM »

Quote from: MrNubbz on November 02, 2020, 09:57:14 AM

Sparty took some horrible roster losses the last 3 seasons whether grades,off field trouble or transfers was hard from to watch from staunch to sliding.Maybe Mel can get them on track,I don't know that anyone had MSU staying within 7 let alone winning last Saturday

MSU has done a great job of developing and identifying underrated talent. The problem has been that ignores all of the appropriately low rated guys they have also taken. Their success has almost exclusively been tied to health luck. 2013, 2014 and 2017, they stayed insanely healthy. 2016, 2018 and 2019, they were crushed, particularly in the trenches.

That has resulted in a lot of guys MSU beat out MAC schools to get...showing they probably deserved to play in the MAC.

I think the only year that cut against that was 2015, where they had fairly bad (but not 16, 18, 19 bad) injury luck, and wound up in the CFP. That team also (Nebraska game aside) seemed to have every bounce go their way. I think their only comfortable wins all year were WMU, Air Force, Maryland and Penn State.

They beat Oregon by 3, getting a late 4th down stop to seal the win
They beat CMU by 20, thanks to a pair of late scores after leading by 7 with about 7 minutes left
They beat a bad Purdue team by 3
They beat a bad Rutgers team by 7 on a TD with 43 seconds left to break a tie
They beat Michigan by 4 on the "Trouble With the Snap" Game
They beat Indiana in the most deceptive 26 point win of all time, after trailing going into the 4th, and then scoring three touchdowns in the final 4 minutes to turn a 31-26 lead into a 52-26 win
They beat OSU by 3 on a final play FG
They beat Iowa by 3 in the Big Ten title game on a TD with 27 seconds left

That is 8-1 in games that were one score in the final 7 minutes of the game

bayareabadger · « **Reply #45 on:** November 02, 2020, 10:45:12 AM »

Quote from: ELA on November 02, 2020, 08:14:56 AM

The college football playoff has really changed the narrative on what success is. And Ohio State is operating at such a different level right now that those late 90s teams wouldn't have been winning Big Ten titles now either, but I believe some of them did at the time. And honestly winning the national championship was always this weird abstract thing. Even going to New year's Day bowls, when they were merit-based, and not just a combination of rotation and TV viewership with some sort of an accomplishment. It's sort of feels now like if you're not in the playoff, as a helmet school, what are you even doing here?

So I kinda don't agree, though sort of in a nuanced way.

It seems like getting to the playoff is in one way that goal, but it's also not really. Like, Michigan wants to get to the playoff, but getting to the playoff is packaged with 1. Beating OSU, 2. Winning the East 3. Playing for (and likely winning) a Big Ten title. Now maybe if Michigan won a few conference titles and missed the playoff, it would be a thing. But if back in the day, Carr had gone six years without a conference title and been swept by OSU, I think the anger woulda been the same.

To a degree, I think the expansion of NY6 bowls feels lesser, mostly because worse teams get in. But also going to a Peach or Orange feels bigger than going to an Outback or Citrus, even if the teams have accomplished the same.

I think a few factors are at work.
1. We know too much and we are better complainers
In 1999, it took some work to see the full CFB picture. You needed rickety websites, maybe newspapers or sports radio. The top-5 seemed more distant, a rarified group. Now, I can check those rankings every day in two clicks. I can see the whole sport, I can lament a 8-0 mid-major as a pretender instead of a fun story. And when you see the whole field, you can focus on your team's place/lack of place where you want to be. And I think as a society, complaints can unite more, and amplify, in sports and beyond.
2. There are fewer conference titles
The four teams I mentioned won actually only one conference title. But Carr also won part of two three-way splits and one two-way split. Now, we only get one a year, and if you don't win that one, you're mostly shut out of the bigger stuff.

FearlessF · « **Reply #46 on:** November 02, 2020, 10:50:18 AM »

agreed

if Michigan wins the East there will be plenty of celebration regardless of CFP selection

same with Wisconsin, if the Badgers with the Big Ten, this is a big deal. Playoff or not.

and this certainly goes for any team that is not Michigan or Wisconsin in the Big Ten, including PSU

bayareabadger · « **Reply #47 on:** November 02, 2020, 10:53:36 AM »

Quote from: 847badgerfan on November 02, 2020, 08:43:44 AM

Yep, the playoff thing has really had a bad effect on most programs. Even Wisconsin.

Instead of talking about how to get to the Rose Bowl, people talk about how to take the next step and get to the playoff.

It sucks.

I don't know that's the playoff. I think that's just a quirk of the sport.

For better or worse, in CFB you're always 1-2 wins away from the next step. It's just right there. Before the playoff, Barry swung hard to try to reach the next step, an oft-repeated apocryphal tale of the early 2000s. And when you make the next level, you look for just a little more.

Through my undergrad years, people lamented not making it to Pasadena. Then they made it a bunch, and some folks were irked they couldn't actually win there. As Bo's book said, there's always another hill to climb.

In the short term, the thing that historically would get UW to the Rose Bowl would get them to the playoff. That's been true two of the past three completed seasons. One of those years, UW went in a situation when it traditionally wouldn't, because OSU was very good. And the other year, UW didn't go to there Rose Bowl because Ohio State was less good. It's an odd mix.

In the end, everyone wants to be a little better. Purdue wants to be .500 or better consistently, occasionally striking with a big year. Michigan wants some OSU wins and hardware. UW is at times separated from its dream by a monstrously talented OSU program, and some folks, the kind who don't know how good they have it and would complain anyway, will ask why they can't have just one more thing.

(I always think about this in terms of an old Simpson's line. The old rich guy surveys his wealth and says "I'd trade it all for a little more." In some ways, that's absurd and paradoxical, but everyone is willing to blow it up with the assumption they get all they have and a bit on top)

betarhoalphadelta · « **Reply #48 on:** November 02, 2020, 10:57:52 AM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 02, 2020, 10:53:36 AM

In the end, everyone wants to be a little better. Purdue wants to be .500 or better consistently, occasionally striking with a big year. Michigan wants some OSU wins and hardware. UW is at times separated from its dream by a monstrously talented OSU program, and some folks, the kind who don't know how good they have it and would complain anyway, will ask why they can't have just one more thing.

People got tired of Joe Tiller towards the end because they said he couldn't take us to the "next level".

So we got Danny Hope, and realized that the "next" level doesn't always mean a "higher" level, and then got Hazell where we were looking up fondly at the sort of records Hope could achieve.

Now maybe we're on a better trajectory, but I worry that in a few years if Brohm has us to a consistent range where 7-5 is a bad year and 9-3 is a good year, fans will be complaining that we don't pay $6M/year for a coach that can't deliver 10 win seasons, and we need to bring in a coach who can take us to the "next level".

Mdot21 · « **Reply #49 on:** November 02, 2020, 11:19:33 AM »

Quote from: ELA on November 01, 2020, 02:08:41 PM

Having your quarterback unaware of the best player of the opposing defense seems like another major coaching failure. The arrogance after the loss though is certainly appreciated

https://twitter.com/BarstoolMSU/status/1322737017780916224?s=19

This is a major indictment on Harbaugh and that offensive staff.

Thus offense and play-calling still has Harbaugh’s fingerprints all over it. Don’t be fooled just because they line-up in the shotgun 24/7 now. Harbaugh is still heavily involved in the offense like he’s always been everywhere he’s been.

The guy is an assclown that has lost his edge. He used to fire that team up and go nuts on the sidelines and on the refs. Now he’s like a nutered dog on meds and just a spaced out weirdo on meds standing on the sidelines like a retard. He’s got to go.

ELA · « **Reply #50 on:** November 02, 2020, 12:22:31 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on November 02, 2020, 10:45:12 AM

So I kinda don't agree, though sort of in a nuanced way.

It seems like getting to the playoff is in one way that goal, but it's also not really. Like, Michigan wants to get to the playoff, but getting to the playoff is packaged with 1. Beating OSU, 2. Winning the East 3. Playing for (and likely winning) a Big Ten title. Now maybe if Michigan won a few conference titles and missed the playoff, it would be a thing. But if back in the day, Carr had gone six years without a conference title and been swept by OSU, I think the anger woulda been the same.

To a degree, I think the expansion of NY6 bowls feels lesser, mostly because worse teams get in. But also going to a Peach or Orange feels bigger than going to an Outback or Citrus, even if the teams have accomplished the same.

I think a few factors are at work.
1. We know too much and we are better complainers
In 1999, it took some work to see the full CFB picture. You needed rickety websites, maybe newspapers or sports radio. The top-5 seemed more distant, a rarified group. Now, I can check those rankings every day in two clicks. I can see the whole sport, I can lament a 8-0 mid-major as a pretender instead of a fun story. And when you see the whole field, you can focus on your team's place/lack of place where you want to be. And I think as a society, complaints can unite more, and amplify, in sports and beyond.
2. There are fewer conference titles
The four teams I mentioned won actually only one conference title. But Carr also won part of two three-way splits and one two-way split. Now, we only get one a year, and if you don't win that one, you're mostly shut out of the bigger stuff.

Yeah, that was supposed to be more of an AND, rather than an or, as for the CFP AND where OSU is.

That I'm not sure some of those teams that were viewed as good enough, would be doing any better against this version of OSU.

And that an Orange Bowl now is not what an Orange Bowl was in 1999.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #51 on:** November 02, 2020, 12:38:16 PM »

How’s this for a harbaugh replacement....Eric Bienemy.

That’s the style of offense I want to see. Explosive, vertical down the field passing game.

He’s got a lot of experience in the college ranks as well as nfl.

Go all in at him throw a ton of money at him.

MaximumSam · « **Reply #52 on:** November 02, 2020, 12:46:04 PM »

I'll say it is a complete mystery how Michigan has fielded such great corners and then been unable to recruit corners.

Mdot21 · « **Reply #53 on:** November 02, 2020, 01:15:12 PM »

Quote from: MaximumSam on November 02, 2020, 12:46:04 PM

I'll say it is a complete mystery how Michigan has fielded such great corners and then been unable to recruit corners.

Don Brown is an awful recruiter. This is no secret. He openly doesn’t like recruiting. Mattison and Partridge- two defensive coaches- were far and away their best recruiters. Both have been gone for a couple years now. And it’s showing now.

Michigan was way out in front for a pair of really big-time 5* Class of 2022 CB’s. No way they get them now. Both actually have started leaning to....Ohio State.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #54 on:** November 02, 2020, 01:36:03 PM »

Quote from: ELA on November 02, 2020, 12:22:31 PM

Yeah, that was supposed to be more of an AND, rather than an or, as for the CFP AND where OSU is.

That I'm not sure some of those teams that were viewed as good enough, would be doing any better against this version of OSU.

And that an Orange Bowl now is not what an Orange Bowl was in 1999.

Agree.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #55 on:** November 02, 2020, 01:41:14 PM »

Quote from: Mdot21 on November 02, 2020, 12:38:16 PM

How’s this for a harbaugh replacement....Eric Bienemy.

That’s the style of offense I want to see. Explosive, vertical down the field passing game.

He’s got a lot of experience in the college ranks as well as nfl.

Go all in at him throw a ton of money at him.

Isn't he like one of the hottest names in the NFL? Michigan isn't a job with a lot of upside right now. I guess they could break the bank on him. There's some gaping holes on his resume, but it would win the press conference for sure.

(With new coaches, I like to check what people will complain about on the resume if it goes bad. He's got some good stuff on that front)

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Topic: Michigan State (1-1) at #13 Michigan (1-1) Post Game

CatsbyAZ

Re: Michigan State (1-1) at #13 Michigan (1-1) Post Game

MrNubbz

Re: Michigan State (1-1) at #13 Michigan (1-1) Post Game

ELA

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bayareabadger

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FearlessF

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bayareabadger

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betarhoalphadelta

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Mdot21

Re: Michigan State (1-1) at #13 Michigan (1-1) Post Game

ELA

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Mdot21

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MaximumSam

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Mdot21

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bayareabadger

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bayareabadger

Re: Michigan State (1-1) at #13 Michigan (1-1) Post Game