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Topic: In other news ...

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medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35448 on: August 01, 2024, 11:05:01 AM »
Well there are still people out there saying black lives matter. And policing budgets haven't changed. So what happened?
It sure as hell isn't less guns.  

Police budgets have changed.  The left figured out that depolicing was a losing electoral strategy so they aren't pushing it anymore and cops are getting back to doing their jobs.  

MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35449 on: August 01, 2024, 11:06:17 AM »
It sure as hell isn't less guns. 

Police budgets have changed.  The left figured out that depolicing was a losing electoral strategy so they aren't pushing it anymore and cops are getting back to doing their jobs. 
A return to normal? Are you saying there has been a return to normal after a generational event? Where have I heard that in other non-crime contexts in the last four years? Oh well, couldn't possibly be related.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35450 on: August 01, 2024, 11:06:30 AM »
Medina wants to equate words with violence to show the left is at fault. When facts fail, just use your imagination
Actions have consequences.  Depolicing was a thing.  People died.  The correlation is so glaringly obvious that even the NYT admitted it.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35451 on: August 01, 2024, 11:07:30 AM »
You, again, have o coherent response. You keep saying the left has blood on its hands. Yet you, amazing, discount the rise in gun proliferation as a contributing factor in the rise in gun homicides. This is laughable. You have no case, no response, no logic, and may God have mercy on your soul.
LoL.  

I gave facts.  I even used a left-wing source.  Reality is not optional.  BLM/Depolicing led to literally thousands of deaths.  That blood is on leftist hands.  

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35452 on: August 01, 2024, 11:08:12 AM »
Have you checked on it lately? We have a Samari sword problem now.

I think the problem is somehow related to Bill and Ted's time traveling adventures, so things should be fine...
...probably.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35453 on: August 01, 2024, 11:08:30 AM »
A return to normal? Are you saying there has been a return to normal after a generational event? Where have I heard that in other non-crime contexts in the last four years? Oh well, couldn't possibly be related.
Explain the lack of increased traffic fatalities and homicides in other countries.  

FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35454 on: August 01, 2024, 11:10:37 AM »
I think the problem is somehow related to Bill and Ted's time traveling adventures, so things should be fine...
...probably.
Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy?
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35455 on: August 01, 2024, 11:11:37 AM »

LoL. 

I gave facts.  I even used a left-wing source.  Reality is not optional.  BLM/Depolicing led to literally thousands of deaths.  That blood is on leftist hands. 
Your source explicitly talked about COVID as the reason for depolicing. Ah, you see, the New York Times is a "left wing rag" so you have to filter out all the facts that are inconvenient for you and substitute ones that exist in your imagaintion.

Imagination drives a lot of crime talk, as we see with medina's talking points. Though, obviously, guns are a contributing factor to homicides. I don't know why people spend so much time arguing against reality. What do you think policing efforts do? They go after people they think are criminals with guns. Like, WTF? 

Medina's logic:

  • Guns have nothing to do with homicides
  • Depolicing has everything to do with homicides
  • We need police to get the guns off the streets

Make it make sense!


MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35456 on: August 01, 2024, 11:13:08 AM »
Explain the lack of increased traffic fatalities and homicides in other countries. 
Other countries don't have nearly the rate of driving that the United States does. Many countries have much lower rates of enforcement in the first place (ahem, Italy). Other countries have much less access to guns. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35457 on: August 01, 2024, 11:23:03 AM »
Your source explicitly talked about COVID as the reason for depolicing. Ah, you see, the New York Times is a "left wing rag" so you have to filter out all the facts that are inconvenient for you and substitute ones that exist in your imagaintion.

Imagination drives a lot of crime talk, as we see with medina's talking points. Though, obviously, guns are a contributing factor to homicides. I don't know why people spend so much time arguing against reality. What do you think policing efforts do? They go after people they think are criminals with guns. Like, WTF?

Medina's logic:

  • Guns have nothing to do with homicides
  • Depolicing has everything to do with homicides
  • We need police to get the guns off the streets

Make it make sense!
Of course the NYT is a left wing rag.  Are you denying that?  

Even they admitted that depolicing contributed to increased traffic fatalities.  They didn't talk about homicides but the same cause had the same effect.  Lack of policing led to more felons carrying guns.  This is so obvious it shouldn't need explained but since you don't seem to get it, here goes:

If I'm a violent felon and prohibited from owning guns due to my rap sheet my decision of whether or not to carry is influenced by the chances that I'll get stopped.  As my chance of getting stopped goes up it becomes less advantageous to carry.  As my chance of getting stopped goes down it becomes more advantageous to carry.  

Then there is a second-order snowball effect.  As more violent felons carry, that influences other violent felons and those adjacent to them to also carry because they feel the need to be able to protect themselves from the violent felons who are carrying.  

It is absolutely NOT obvious that guns are a contributing factor to homicides.  Talk about imagination.  I have countered this repeatedly and you have failed to address it:
  • If guns cause crime then there should be a correlation.  Do you deny this?
  • All those extra guns from 2019-2021 still exist.  Do you deny this?
  • Since they still exist, if they cause crime, then crime should still be going up.  Do you deny this?
  • Crime stopped going up once the BLM/Depolicing craze abated despite no decrease in guns.  Do you deny this?  

Facts @MaximumSam , try them out.  

Medina never said that guns had nothing to do with homicides.  They are a tool and Medina supports keeping guns away from violent felons.  Medina supports point of use gun control but Medina will NEVER support disarming law abiding citizens.  

We need police to do actual police work.  They need to be making traffic stops not relying on cameras which only impact generally law abiding citizens and fail to interdict illegal guns, find stolen cars, and arrest people with warrants.  

Doing actual police work DOES get illegal guns off the streets.  I'm in favor.  That stopped because the left pushed depolicing.  

The left pushed depolicing and people died as a proximate result.  They have blood on their hands.  


medinabuckeye1

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35458 on: August 01, 2024, 11:26:45 AM »
Other countries don't have nearly the rate of driving that the United States does. 
Makes no difference because we are talking rates.  Regardless of whether they started higher or started lower if the pandemic caused traffic fatalities to increase they should have increased everywhere.  
Many countries have much lower rates of enforcement in the first place (ahem, Italy).
Makes no difference because we are talking rates.  
Other countries have much less access to guns.
Irrelevant to the issue of traffic fatalities.  

On the issue of homicides generally @Cincydawg pretty clearly showed the lack of correlation and as you've steadfastly refused to respond to, those extra guns from 2019-2021 didn't vaporize, they are still out there.  If they caused crime, crime would still be rising.  They don't and it isn't.  

MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35459 on: August 01, 2024, 11:30:52 AM »

Quote
It is absolutely NOT obvious that guns are a contributing factor to homicides. 
WTF. You just conceded it. If you don't remember, let me remind you.



Quote
If I'm a violent felon and prohibited from owning guns due to my rap sheet my decision of whether or not to carry is influenced by the chances that I'll get stopped.  As my chance of getting stopped goes up it becomes less advantageous to carry.  As my chance of getting stopped goes down it becomes more advantageous to carry.  

Then there is a second-order snowball effect.  As more violent felons carry, that influences other violent felons and those adjacent to them to also carry because they feel the need to be able to protect themselves from the violent felons who are carrying.  
So yes, guns clearly impact homicide rates. 


To your questions:


Quote
  • If guns cause crime then there should be a correlation.  Do you deny this?
No



Quote
  • All those extra guns from 2019-2021 still exist.  Do you deny this?


They don't all exist. Ones involved in crimes are routinely destroyed. They also do gun buyback programs and destroy those. But I'm not aware of a decrease in gun proliferation, though I don't know for certain.


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  • Since they still exist, if they cause crime, then crime should still be going up.  Do you deny this?
Yes. I don't find that to be a logical conclusion.



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  • Crime stopped going up once the BLM/Depolicing craze abated despite no decrease in guns.  Do you deny this?  
Yes - I didn't find there to be much to "depolicing," as I've stated repeatedly. I don't think the homicide rates had much to do with anything related to policing, just as their drop from the 1990's on had anything to do with policing. I find policing to be the most overrated factor in all conversations about crime.

847badgerfan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35460 on: August 01, 2024, 11:32:29 AM »
Buckeye on Buckeye violence.

Love it.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MaximumSam

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #35461 on: August 01, 2024, 11:32:50 AM »

Quote
Makes no difference because we are talking rates.  Regardless of whether they started higher or started lower if the pandemic caused traffic fatalities to increase they should have increased everywhere.  
I don't find this logical. If the United States dropped its traffic policing to Italy rates, but Italy didn't change, why would we expect a drop in Italian rates?



Quote
Irrelevant to the issue of traffic fatalities.  
You also asked about homicides. Homicides are more likely where a gun is used. 

 

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