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Topic: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out

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SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43232 on: April 02, 2025, 03:38:41 PM »
My view, which isn't worth much, but it's nice of you to ask...

1) Voters don't care about the Department of [whatever].
2) Voters care about getting their government-provided services. So if DOGE cuts result in slower processing of social security payments, or VA benefits, or some other money or thing that the government promised, voters will care a lot.
3) Rumor has it that those kinds of delays are already taking place and will occur a lot more frequently. If so, that will be a huge problem for Trump.
4) Voters care a great deal about their own jobs and the economy. If you are a voter in a place with a lot of federal workers, and you or people you know lose a job because of DOGE, that will be a problem for voters. If the area you work in goes through a bunch of economic trouble because the federal work force there sustained a significant part of the economy, that will be a big problem for you.
5) Voters also car a great deal about certainty. We don't want to live in uncertain times. So the more up in the air things feel, the more nervous people will be. Right now, what's happening feels uncertain, but just a couple of months into the new administration, that's ok. If voters feel this way in 6 more months, that will be a problem.
6) Yes, there will be $1500 hammers, but probably not that many. The truth is the government is probably better, internally, than a lot of private sector companies. Most of the fraud is probably people and companies taking advantage of the government, not the government buying $1500 hammers--like the food stamp fraud you pointed to (and people not paying taxes, taking advantage of pell grants, taking advantage of medicare/medicaid, etc.). There probably is some redundancy, but that's not really "fraud, waste, and abuse." And how much of that is found / eliminated is an interesting question. 
7) Finally, most voters don't know if any of these things are connected--they just will know how they feel, and whether they are getting the services and live in an economy they are happy with. That's a big part of the problem with the fiscal responsibility issue: voters know how they feel, not how GDP, debts, and deficits interact.

From a different perspective, I think we are seeing and will see government departments hamstrung by DOGE, which will mean the government is less efficient in doing its job. There are some programs that will likely get broken, and in the short term that will hurt people that "we the people" think shouldn't be hurt. In the long run, it's very possible that this will lead to an opportunity to remake these departments/programs in a way that is an improvement. That long-term goal isn't a bad thing--the question is who gets hurt in the process. That's where the trouble is.

Finally, notwithstanding the mandate the voters gave Trump, we are still talking about pretty fine margins in the world of politics, so it doesn't take turning off that many people to result in a political change. Pretty good bet that such is coming. The question is where we will be when it arrives?


utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43233 on: April 02, 2025, 03:43:50 PM »
I don't think a bunch of veterans are going to vote Democrat just because the lines at the VA are a little longer.

Basically I think the country will remain divided exactly as-is and voters will vote in exactly the same way they have been.

As sfbadger points out, those margins are thin which could mean a reversal, but I don't think it inevitably means such.

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43234 on: April 02, 2025, 03:55:42 PM »
I don't think a bunch of veterans are going to vote Democrat just because the lines at the VA are a little longer.

My wife moved out of primary care a few years ago and into VA assessments and service-connection benefits.  According to her, a fair number of veterans appear to already vote Democrat, and like you say, will probably continue to vote how they vote.  A good percentage of them can't stop themselves from talking to her about how they feel about the president and the administration, whether they love him or hate him, despite the fact that she ain't asking and wishes they'd hush.  

The ones who hate Trump also tend to complain to her about their fears about what will happen to their benefits.  Though it's worth noting absolutely nothing about their reported experience so far has been affected, when she asks them if they're having trouble with something.  They're not, but they're worried they will.  

Actually, the first Trump administration injected some $ (because, as I've said despite Medina's mitigating comments, Trump didn't meet a tax dollar in his first term he didn't love to spend) into the VA which was very helpful.  One of the good things Biden did was not to screw with that.  The VA system still has problems, absolutely, but it's better than it was 8 years ago.  

MikeDeTiger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43235 on: April 02, 2025, 03:56:38 PM »

6) Yes, there will be $1500 hammers, but probably not that many. The truth is the government is probably better, internally, than a lot of private sector companies.

I appreciate you getting back to talking nonsense I can criticize.  All this agreeing we've been doing lately was getting tiresome.  

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43236 on: April 02, 2025, 03:58:33 PM »
My wife moved out of primary care a few years ago and into VA assessments and service-connection benefits.  According to her, a fair number of veterans appear to already vote Democrat, and like you say, will probably continue to vote how they vote.  A good percentage of them can't stop themselves from talking to her about how they feel about the president and the administration, whether they love him or hate him, despite the fact that she ain't asking and wishes they'd hush. 

The ones who hate Trump also tend to complain to her about their fears about what will happen to their benefits.  Though it's worth noting absolutely nothing about their reported experience so far has been affected, when she asks them if they're having trouble with something.  They're not, but they're worried they will. 

Actually, the first Trump administration injected some $ (because, as I've said despite Medina's mitigating comments, Trump didn't meet a tax dollar in his first term he didn't love to spend) into the VA which was very helpful.  One of the good things Biden did was not to screw with that.  The VA system still has problems, absolutely, but it's better than it was 8 years ago. 
Could be generational.  My i s c & a aggie wife's veteran dad, and every single one of his veteran friends and relatives, are hardcore MAGA.

But as we've both stated, regardless of the split, a longer line at the VA isn't going to make the conservative vets vote Dem.  And any veterans that are already voting Dem, well, are going to continue.

I expect the same sort of behavior among all other groups that receive federal benefits.  They're not going to change their voting behaviors.

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43237 on: April 02, 2025, 04:09:07 PM »
vets are always gonna complain about the VA
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

SFBadger96

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43238 on: April 02, 2025, 04:55:51 PM »
There is a band of voters who change their votes, or whether they vote, depending on their current experiences. If there weren't, we wouldn't have changes in who wins the presidency and Congress. Those are the voters this may affect. 
There's also the possibility that we have extreme good or bad fortune economically, in which case the President and party in power in Congress will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences, depending on which of those things happens. But that isn't really a DOGE thing.

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43239 on: April 02, 2025, 05:20:21 PM »
There is a band of voters who change their votes, or whether they vote, depending on their current experiences. If there weren't, we wouldn't have changes in who wins the presidency and Congress. Those are the voters this may affect.
There's also the possibility that we have extreme good or bad fortune economically, in which case the President and party in power in Congress will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences, depending on which of those things happens. But that isn't really a DOGE thing.

Not necessarily.  Sometimes it's just people turning up to vote, who are not on the fence, they're just not motivated, until a certain catalyst pushes them away from inactivity.

I don't foresee some new cache of anti-conservatives turning out next cycle, the hatred for Trump has already drawn them out.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43240 on: April 02, 2025, 07:03:57 PM »
The level of waste and fraud is almost too hard to comprehend.   Go DOGE go!
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43241 on: Today at 09:34:17 AM »
Not necessarily.  Sometimes it's just people turning up to vote, who are not on the fence, they're just not motivated, until a certain catalyst pushes them away from inactivity.

I don't foresee some new cache of anti-conservatives turning out next cycle, the hatred for Trump has already drawn them out.

odd that the hatred for Trump subsided substantially during Biden's 4 years
and now he's Back with a Vengeance! 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

bayareabadger

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43242 on: Today at 09:45:57 AM »
Mmmm, tariff time.

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43243 on: Today at 09:55:12 AM »
Expect prices on most consumer goods to go up by ~10%.  In many cases this has already happened.

FearlessF

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43244 on: Today at 10:01:36 AM »
and do NOT expect prices to go down if/when tariffs are removed
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

utee94

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Re: OT-Catch all thread - Personal attacks will result in a time out
« Reply #43245 on: Today at 10:03:28 AM »
Except for eggs.


Quote
National egg prices fell 9 percent last week to an average of $3 a dozen, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

The decline continues a recent downward trend in egg prices following a national egg shortage driven by the highly pathogenic avian influenza, or bird flu, outbreak. Wholesale prices for graded loose eggs declined $0.26 last week, the USDA confirmed in its weekly egg market report published Friday.

"The supply situation at grocery outlets has greatly improved in recent weeks and consumers are once again seeing fully stocked shelves and enjoying a range of choices without purchase restrictions," the USDA stated.




https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2025/04/02/egg-prices-decreasing/82786127007/


 

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