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Topic: In other news ...

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utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27188 on: October 09, 2023, 04:47:34 PM »
I don't really cook or eat underdone fowl, not by more than 5 degrees or so anyway.

But things like pork chops and pork tenderloin I cook well below the old-school recommendations.  I'll pull at 135 and let it carryover to 140.  And it is FAR superior to anything cooked even 5-8 degrees more.  And 160?  Forget it, there's zero moisture left.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27189 on: October 09, 2023, 05:24:52 PM »
Well-cooked turkey might be my favorite meat.  I know that sounds crazy, but I'm afraid it's true.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27190 on: October 09, 2023, 05:29:22 PM »
I like turkey if not dry.  You'd think the turkey lobby would be on it encouraging us to eat it more often.

We all have chicken pretty often.  We eat turkey sandwiches.  But not turkey, it's what for dinner.

The turkey lobby is weak.  
They SHOULD be advocating for buying whole turkeys year-round, but have settled for being bloated and sliced and simple sandwich meat.
They should go the whole roasted chicken route you can get at any grocery store for like $7.00.  Have a family of 6?  That chicken won't do!  Get a $10.00 turkey instead, and feed everyone and then some!  

Plus they don't have the egg lobby to attach to like the chicken lobby does.  The egg lobby does the thumb-breaking for the chicken lobby.  The turkey lobby has no such threat.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27191 on: October 09, 2023, 05:30:31 PM »
I don't really cook or eat underdone fowl, not by more than 5 degrees or so anyway.

But things like pork chops and pork tenderloin I cook well below the old-school recommendations.  I'll pull at 135 and let it carryover to 140.  And it is FAR superior to anything cooked even 5-8 degrees more.  And 160?  Forget it, there's zero moisture left.
Duck can be (and generally is) eaten closer to rare. I wouldn't know that I'd trust that with either chicken or turkey. I might consider it if I do a sous vide prep where I can actually know it's safe though. You can hold chicken at 140 for ~30 minutes and you've killed any salmonella...

https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/sous-vide-safety/more/sous-vide-safety-salmonella-and-bacteria

But I'm not sure what sort of texture you'd get with chicken at that temp. It might be safe, but also disgusting...

Agree 100% on pork though. It's an old myth that it needs to be 160. I generally pull at 135 and let it come up the rest of the way as well. 

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27192 on: October 09, 2023, 05:38:26 PM »
They should go the whole roasted chicken route you can get at any grocery store for like $7.00.  Have a family of 6?  That chicken won't do!  Get a $10.00 turkey instead, and feed everyone and then some! 
Problem IMHO is that a whole turkey is a lot more difficult to deal with than a whole chicken...

  • The drumstick has a whole bunch of stringy connective bits that are hard to eat around. Chicken drumstick has one piece of cartilage but that's it.
  • The same is true of turkey wings. There's a lot more meat than chicken wings, but there's also a lot more inedible stuff in there. 
  • Taking a chicken apart into wings/breast/thigh/drum when it's cooked is freakin' child's play. I'm not gonna call turkey "hard" by any means, but it's a bigger effort to be sure. 
  • Turkey is going to take significantly longer to cook than chicken. In a two-parent household with four kids (who have homework, might have after-school activities, other BS, etc), do you want to commit to a multi-hour cook when you can do a whole chicken in an hour easy? 

For that family (and bear in mind I'm a family of 5 about 40% of the time, with a 16 yo son who basically makes that 6 from an appetite perspective) it's a lot easier to just buy two chickens. Spatchcock them, season them (10 minutes tops), toss them on the outdoor grill indirect or in the oven at 350-375 for about an hour, and you're good to go. 

When my wife (again, poultry allergy) has other plans, or when she and I decide we're going to cook something for ourselves we don't think the kids will eat (rare because we do that on the 60% of the time they're not here), throwing a spatchcock chicken on the grill is WAY easier than dealing with a turkey. 


utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27193 on: October 09, 2023, 06:02:08 PM »
Duck can be (and generally is) eaten closer to rare. I wouldn't know that I'd trust that with either chicken or turkey. I might consider it if I do a sous vide prep where I can actually know it's safe though. You can hold chicken at 140 for ~30 minutes and you've killed any salmonella...

https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/sous-vide-safety/more/sous-vide-safety-salmonella-and-bacteria

But I'm not sure what sort of texture you'd get with chicken at that temp. It might be safe, but also disgusting...

Agree 100% on pork though. It's an old myth that it needs to be 160. I generally pull at 135 and let it come up the rest of the way as well.

Yes that's my problem with undercooked fowl, the texture is disgusting.

Duck is awesome and doesn't count, but there's no way I'm eating chicken or turkey that's not cooked to at least 155 or so.  Makes me wanna puke just thinking about it.

utee94

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27194 on: October 09, 2023, 06:06:00 PM »
Problem IMHO is that a whole turkey is a lot more difficult to deal with than a whole chicken...

  • The drumstick has a whole bunch of stringy connective bits that are hard to eat around. Chicken drumstick has one piece of cartilage but that's it.
  • The same is true of turkey wings. There's a lot more meat than chicken wings, but there's also a lot more inedible stuff in there.
  • Taking a chicken apart into wings/breast/thigh/drum when it's cooked is freakin' child's play. I'm not gonna call turkey "hard" by any means, but it's a bigger effort to be sure.
  • Turkey is going to take significantly longer to cook than chicken. In a two-parent household with four kids (who have homework, might have after-school activities, other BS, etc), do you want to commit to a multi-hour cook when you can do a whole chicken in an hour easy?

For that family (and bear in mind I'm a family of 5 about 40% of the time, with a 16 yo son who basically makes that 6 from an appetite perspective) it's a lot easier to just buy two chickens. Spatchcock them, season them (10 minutes tops), toss them on the outdoor grill indirect or in the oven at 350-375 for about an hour, and you're good to go.

When my wife (again, poultry allergy) has other plans, or when she and I decide we're going to cook something for ourselves we don't think the kids will eat (rare because we do that on the 60% of the time they're not here), throwing a spatchcock chicken on the grill is WAY easier than dealing with a turkey.



I believe he's talking about pre-cooked "rotisserie turkeys" in the same manner you find rotisserie chickens at your local grocery store. Some of the problems with prep and cooking that you mention still exist, but they're transferred to the professional kitchens which are better equipped to handle them at scale.

ELA

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27195 on: October 09, 2023, 06:25:18 PM »
Duck can be (and generally is) eaten closer to rare. I wouldn't know that I'd trust that with either chicken or turkey. I might consider it if I do a sous vide prep where I can actually know it's safe though. You can hold chicken at 140 for ~30 minutes and you've killed any salmonella...

https://www.amazingfoodmadeeasy.com/info/sous-vide-safety/more/sous-vide-safety-salmonella-and-bacteria

But I'm not sure what sort of texture you'd get with chicken at that temp. It might be safe, but also disgusting...

Agree 100% on pork though. It's an old myth that it needs to be 160. I generally pull at 135 and let it come up the rest of the way as well.
Duck is one of those things I've made once, and was so nervous about how it should be cooked, that I wound up overcooking it.  I'll order it out sometimes, but I'll never make it again

MrNubbz

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27196 on: October 09, 2023, 06:26:35 PM »
The turkey lobby is weak. 
Stop egging him on 
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

ELA

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27197 on: October 09, 2023, 06:27:11 PM »
Problem IMHO is that a whole turkey is a lot more difficult to deal with than a whole chicken...

  • The drumstick has a whole bunch of stringy connective bits that are hard to eat around. Chicken drumstick has one piece of cartilage but that's it.
  • The same is true of turkey wings. There's a lot more meat than chicken wings, but there's also a lot more inedible stuff in there.
  • Taking a chicken apart into wings/breast/thigh/drum when it's cooked is freakin' child's play. I'm not gonna call turkey "hard" by any means, but it's a bigger effort to be sure.
  • Turkey is going to take significantly longer to cook than chicken. In a two-parent household with four kids (who have homework, might have after-school activities, other BS, etc), do you want to commit to a multi-hour cook when you can do a whole chicken in an hour easy?

For that family (and bear in mind I'm a family of 5 about 40% of the time, with a 16 yo son who basically makes that 6 from an appetite perspective) it's a lot easier to just buy two chickens. Spatchcock them, season them (10 minutes tops), toss them on the outdoor grill indirect or in the oven at 350-375 for about an hour, and you're good to go.

When my wife (again, poultry allergy) has other plans, or when she and I decide we're going to cook something for ourselves we don't think the kids will eat (rare because we do that on the 60% of the time they're not here), throwing a spatchcock chicken on the grill is WAY easier than dealing with a turkey.
And I think that's why it isn't made more often.  Anti-turkey folks always lean into the "why don't you make it more than once a year then?" argument.  Now, when we were younger, we did eat it more often.  Family of 6, with grandparents close by, and a stay at home mom.  That's a great dinner for 6-10 folks, if you have the time to do it right

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27198 on: October 09, 2023, 07:16:18 PM »
I believe he's talking about pre-cooked "rotisserie turkeys" in the same manner you find rotisserie chickens at your local grocery store. Some of the problems with prep and cooking that you mention still exist, but they're transferred to the professional kitchens which are better equipped to handle them at scale.
Ahh, got it. I guess I didn't consider that as on a normal week, our O/U on home-cooked dinners is 6.5 lol...

GopherRock

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27199 on: October 09, 2023, 09:19:10 PM »
Minnesota is the #1 turkey producing state in the country. 

Gobble gobble, ya bastages.


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FearlessF

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27200 on: October 09, 2023, 09:25:30 PM »
how different can duck be from chicken?

and why aren't turkey eggs sold?

birds are birds
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: In other news ...
« Reply #27201 on: October 09, 2023, 10:24:38 PM »
As ostrich egg could feed a Little League team...
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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