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Topic: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data

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jgvol

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2025, 01:36:23 PM »
I'm not sure what you're getting at here?  The same could be said of alternate programming on CBS when Fox is showing BiG football, and/or NBC, or whatever.

I'm not sure either.  Is the suggestion that ESPN and ABC don't air football at the same time?

They do.....every week.  SEC Tier 1 primetime, and SEC Tier 2 primetime.

Picked a rando middle of the season week:


utee94

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2025, 01:46:56 PM »
Yeah, ABC and both main ESPNs are competing with each other throughout the day, pretty much every Saturday.

jgvol

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2025, 01:52:11 PM »
Yeah, ABC and both main ESPNs are competing with each other throughout the day, pretty much every Saturday.

And SEC Network -- also ESPN.

utee94

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2025, 01:55:09 PM »
And SEC Network -- also ESPN.
Well sure, but the BTN is constantly airing a ton of stuff, as is Peacock, in competition with the B1G games on the major networks.

But none of those games are going to compete with the Top 100, so I don't really view them as much of drag on the top line numbers.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2025, 02:43:43 PM »
Those have to be old people watching local news and Wheel of Fortune.  I can't imagine anyone who cares about college football just getting over the air broadcast TV
It doesn't mean you're JUST getting OTA. But for example when Sling first premiered, it didn't include local channels. At the time I had Sling + an antenna.

While true sports fans, ESPECIALLY CFB fans, really have a difficult time getting by without ESPN, I'm sure there are a number of people, even younger people, for whom Netflix + Prime + OTA Antenna covers everything. Heck, if you're an NFL fan, that gets you everything except Monday Night Football--which has been simulcast to ABC a few times this season.

OTA HD broadcast is better than most cable or streamed HD signals, because it's uncompressed.  I know a couple of hardcore sports fans that have reinstalled their OTA antennae and insist on watching the OTA broadcast rather than cable/streaming when it's available.

That's not me of course, I'm far too lazy to bother with switching back and forth btw OTA and cable/streaming.

Interesting, have not heard that
I'VE BEEN SAYING THAT ON THIS VERY FORUM, FOR YEARS!!! FFS!

(BTW it's not "uncompressed", but it's less compressed. It does still look noticeably better.)

I liked the headline lol:

Millennials Unearth an Amazing Hack to Get Free TV: the Antenna

I did think they overlooked the point I keep making, that with digital transmission all the bad reception problem of old-school analog antennas go away. And that with the ability to send less-compressed broadcasts than cable/satellite, picture quality is IMPROVED by going OTA.

Most people of our generation that grew up with an antenna and then switched to cable did so partly for more channels, but partly also because the signal was much cleaner. That's no longer the case, and that's something I don't think people recognize.

Especially since 29% of them don't even realize free OTA TV exists lol.

"Channels"? What are those? I'm unfamiliar with these antiquated terms :smiley_confused1:
So far I get most of my Netflix, and the few things I watch on Amazon Prime Video, in 4K. I wouldn't say it's especially world-changing relative to 1080p, as the compression is such that the bitrates aren't as high as what you see on those Costco displays. But it's an upgrade.
That's the thing whether it's cable, satellite, or streaming. They all have to manage their bitrates. The "preview" will likely be at a very high bitrate, so the quality will be stellar. But the actual broadcast will be compressed as much as they need to do based on their bandwidth limitations.
That's why I watch my local networks through the antenna rather than through Hulu... It's 1080p either way, but since the towers don't have the same bandwidth limitations as Hulu, they can leave their signal less compressed and the OTA antenna actually looks BETTER than cable/satellite/streaming.

Just an interesting point in favor of the antenna...

Way back in the analog days, using an antenna often led to a pretty poor picture, and spotty reception. One of the key selling points of cable at the time was picture quality.

This has reversed. These days, both cable and satellite have bandwidth limits because they have SO many channels to carry on a limited-bandwidth coax [cable] or limited amount of wireless spectrum [satellite]. It's made even harder, because due to backward compatibility with older set-top boxes, they often have to carry the same channels in older MPEG-2 compression for their old boxes, and carry the same channels in MPEG-4 or HEVC for their newest boxes. They're trying to carry 10 pounds of potatoes in a 5 pound bag, and the only way to do that is to COMPRESS the hell out of the source.

This is also true of streaming and IPTV services, because they're optimizing for bandwidth as well. They have some advantages since they're point-to-point transmissions so they only need to send ONE signal, but they still try to compress it to reduce bandwidth use.

Digital broadcast doesn't have that problem. Each network has their own frequency, and they can broadcast a signal tuned for picture quality rather than tuned for saving bandwidth. And since digital is basically a "you have a picture or you don't" situation, rather than a progressive loss of quality like analog, as long as you are getting a signal, you're getting a 100% quality version of what was originally sent.

As a result, you'll often find that the network TV programming through your antenna actually looks BETTER than what comes across cable, satellite, or streaming.

Although I now have Hulu Live TV, which includes my locals, I had put an antenna on the house when I used Sling. I actually use the antenna rather than Hulu for most live network sports broadcasts because the signal quality is so much better.

FYI, the OTA is usually not compressed AS BADLY as the satellite feed is. All signals are compressed using industry-standard algorithms, but not all compression is equal in the way it's implemented.

If you've ever ripped DVDs to video files (or even just CD to MP3), you'll know that every compression program will have settings that is always a balance of video/audio quality vs file size.

Satellite and cable are trying to fit as many channels as possible into a single limited-bandwidth cord, so the tighter they squeeze the quality settings, the more content they can provide. IPTV and streaming providers are only giving you one "channel" at a time, but they also know that internet bandwidth isn't free or unlimited, so they have incentive to squeeze it as much as possible as well.

OTA broadcast has a band of spectrum allocated. If they use 100% of their allocation, it doesn't hurt them or cost them extra. So they have more incentive to optimize for picture quality in their compression.

For most things I'm watching, I just let Hulu stream it to me even if it's on a channel I can pick up OTA, because honestly it's just easier. But for sports, if it's OTA I default to the antenna. The picture quality difference is immediately noticeable.

As I always highlight, half the marketing there is showing you content that is SO much better than nearly anything you'll ever watch. It's basically uncompressed and optimized to look amazing.

Anything you watch broadcast/cable/satellite/IPTV/streaming will be EXTREMELY compressed compared to that and won't look anywhere near as good.

If you watch a bunch of 4K HDR movies that you've purchased on physical media, they should look outstanding. But literally everything else will be too compressed to make use of the technology in these TVs.

Compression. All services / channels use compression for digital TV, but at the source they can determine what bitrate they want to support. A lower bitrate (higher compression) causes loss of quality, but in the case of fixed bandwidth or pay-for-transmission systems, reduce the transmission cost. A higher bitrate is higher quality, but the cost of transmission can be higher.

Satellite has to cram a bunch of channels into fixed bandwidth, and they do it by compressing the stream and you lose quality in the process. Cable has the exact same issue--you only have so much bandwidth on that cable, so the quality suffers to compress it as much as possible. IPTV or streaming services have to pay for the bandwidth they use, so they compress the video as much as they can and quality is lost. It's all about either packing in more channels or reducing transmission cost.

OTA broadcast has already secured the rights to the bandwidth associated with a specific linear "channel" for a tuner to pick up. That is a single fixed cost and completely unrelated to the level of compression they choose, so they can choose the lightest compression and the highest bitrate for their transmission without it affecting operating cost. 

Hence, OTA is actually a BETTER picture than cable/satellite/streaming, because they are giving you a higher bitrate content.

Yep, as I've mentioned several times since I've worked with these various companies, cable/satellite is a major headache. They have fixed bandwidth either within the cable or via a satellite feed, and they have a lot of legacy boxes out there in the world that only support less efficient compression. Which means if they are sending ESPN out there, they probably need to have MPEG-2, MPEG-4, and HEVC compression options so they have three different streams they have to fit into their bandwidth envelope for a single channel.

Which means that they compress the HELL out of everything using settings that strip out a lot of the quality, because they're also trying to provide as many channels as possible.

This tends to also affect streaming companies somewhat, as they have to pay for the bandwidth they use. However, their transmissions are point-to-point, which means that if I'm watching ESPN on Hulu, they don't have to send me 100 other channels 100% of the time. It also means that whatever box I have receiving it (whether it's a Roku, or a native TV app, or whatever) can identify which compression protocol it's capable of decoding, and Hulu only has to send one. So while they are also forced to compress quite a bit to save on bandwidth costs, they don't have the same constraints as cable/satellite... Hence why streaming DirecTV will be higher quality than satellite DirecTV.

And that's also why digital OTA network broadcasts are often the highest picture quality. They don't have to worry much about compression settings because they're not "paying for bandwidth" in any meaningful sense.

Which is funny, because people used to go to cable/satellite for the picture quality vs analog rabbit ears... And now the best picture quality is digital "rabbit ears" while cable/satellite is often the worst picture quality.
 

utee94

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2025, 02:52:07 PM »
Holy wall of text, batman!  Take it to the cord-cutters thread.  It's over there ------------>


847badgerfan

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2025, 02:52:19 PM »
The chronicles of B.R.A.D.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

utee94

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2025, 02:54:53 PM »
Anyway, point being, there's still over 20% of television/media viewing that's done over the air, and there are sports enthusiasts who insist on watching OTA signals if at all possible, because the picture is better. 

But it's not likely a HUGE percentage of sports enthusiasts.

And both the SEC through ABC, and the B1G though CBS, NBC, and Fox, have some games each week that are available OTA.

And that's really all that needed to be said, about that. 

FearlessF

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2025, 02:58:04 PM »
I scrolled through that on my phone 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2025, 03:02:11 PM »
Holy wall of text, batman!  Take it to the cord-cutters thread.  It's over there ------------>
Well clearly @ELA must not have been paying attention to that thread...

Or the numerous others I've posted this in over the last 7+ years according to a forum search for "compress" and posts written by me :57:

medinabuckeye1

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2025, 03:21:56 PM »
Those have to be old people watching local news and Wheel of Fortune.  I can't imagine anyone who cares about college football just getting over the air broadcast TV
Raises hand.  

I am someone who cares about college football and I don't have cable so everything I watch is OTA or YouTube after the fact.  

I HATE that the CFP was on ESPN and if Ohio State hadn't been in it, I probably wouldn't have watched at all but since they were, the Ohio State games were important enough to me that I found ways to watch.  

Actually, being a cord cutter is more problematic in BB season than football.  Football games are only once a week and they are big enough "events" that I can usually go to a party or my brother's house or a bar.  BB is more difficult, I can't run out twice a week for two hours for a tOSU BB game so I end up seeing very few games per year.  

medinabuckeye1

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2025, 03:26:11 PM »
I still think the ABC/ESPN numbers need a deeper dive.  There is no "over the air" tv anymore.  It's either cable or streaming, and either way you get both channels.

I would be curious as to what is airing on ESPN when ABC is showing football, and vice versa.  I suspect when ABC is showing college football, ESPN is showing some shitty sporting event.  But when ESPN has football, ABC is showing the Bachelor, or equivalent.  So assume you are a sports fan, you are watching that college football game.  Unless you have a vested issue in whatever college basketball or volleyball game ESPN is showing instead, you aren't watching that.  All you are doing is attracting sports fans, and telling them to pick between two very different options.  If you don't want to watch sports, you are watching neither.  But all sports fans are watching ESPN.  If you put that game on ESPN, then ABC suddenly has something to sell people who don't want to watch sports.  And ABC generally is showing some popular reality show.  They aren't showing DDD re-runs (which I do watch).  So those show DO get eyeballs.

It took me 2 seconds to realize the issue with their study, and I promise the Disney execs have done the same, which is why they split them like they have.
I get your point.  If we think about this in a very antiquated (but probably by-and-large accurate) way, if a given house has a husband who is into sports and a wife who is into reality shows then by showing the FB game on ESPN and Bachelor on ABC then the parent (the Mouse) may get 2 TV's out of that household but if they show CFB #1 on ABC and CFB #2 on ESPN then they'll only get 1 and the wife will go watch some other reality show on NBC or CBS or whatever.  

That said, there are some people (like me) that you just flat lose if you don't have a game OTA.  There were times this past season when I watched some random ACC or SEC game because it was on OTA when the game I would have preferred to watch was a B1G game but it was on BTN or ESPN or Peacock or whatever.  

utee94

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2025, 03:37:17 PM »
I get your point.  If we think about this in a very antiquated (but probably by-and-large accurate) way, if a given house has a husband who is into sports and a wife who is into reality shows then by showing the FB game on ESPN and Bachelor on ABC then the parent (the Mouse) may get 2 TV's out of that household but if they show CFB #1 on ABC and CFB #2 on ESPN then they'll only get 1 and the wife will go watch some other reality show on NBC or CBS or whatever. 

That said, there are some people (like me) that you just flat lose if you don't have a game OTA.  There were times this past season when I watched some random ACC or SEC game because it was on OTA when the game I would have preferred to watch was a B1G game but it was on BTN or ESPN or Peacock or whatever. 
But as jgvol has already demonstrated, ABC and both ESPNs are running college football content simultaneously. They've done this for decades, including years when they carried the B1G contract, so I'm not sure why there's any questions about it.


ELA

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Re: College Football 2024/2025 Television Appearance Data
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2025, 04:49:39 PM »
Damn, Purdue has entered the chat

 

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