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Topic: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?

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medinabuckeye1

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Looking at the final pre-bowl AP Poll, here are the teams and who they lost to:

  • 13-0 Michigan
  • 13-0 Washington
  • 12-1 Texas, #12 Oklahoma
  • 13-0 FSU
  • 12-1 Bama, #3 Texas
  • 12-1 UGA, #5 Bama
  • 11-1 tOSU, #1 M
  • 11-2 Oregon, #2 UW twice
  • 10-2 Mizzou, #6 UGA, #13 LSU
  • 10-2 PSU, #1 M, #7 tOSU
  • 10-2 Ole Miss, #5 Bama, #6 UGA
  • 10-2 Oklahoma, #22 OkSU, ORV Kansas
  • 9-3 LSU, #4 FSU, #5 Bama, #11 Ole Miss
  • 9-3 Zona, #2 UW, NR MsSt, NR USC
  • 9-3 Notre Dame, #7 tOSU, #16 L'Ville, ORV Clemson
  • 10-3 L'Ville, #4 FSU, NR Pitt, NR UK
  • 11-2 SMU, #12 OU, NR TCU
  • 13-0 Liberty
  • 9-3 NCST, #15 ND, #16 L'Ville, NR Dook
  • 10-3 Iowa, #1 M, #10 PSU, NR Minny
  • 8-4 OrSU, #2 UW, #8 Ore, #14 Zona, NR WSU
  • 9-4 OkSU, #3 TX, NR USA, NR ISU, NR UCF
  • 11-2 Tulane, #11 Ole Miss, #17 SMU
  • 11-1 JMU, NR ApSt
  • 8-4 Tennessee, #5 Bama, #6 UGA, #9 Mizzou, NR UF


I didn't go back to compare to prior years but this seems like an unusually small number of just "WTF" losses.  The highest ranked team to lose to an unranked team is Oklahoma but that was to a Kansas team that was ranked at the time and still has votes.  It isn't a "good" loss, but it wasn't terrible.  Nobody in the top 11 had a loss to a team that finished unranked and nobody in the top 13 had a loss to a team that finished without votes.  That seems odd to me.  

TyphonInc

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2023, 12:37:53 PM »
That does seem pretty odd.
I'm guessing that we have the same 8 or so contenders each year with this new 12-team format. The question will be which of the transfers will be able to adjust to their new league and which ones will falter.

OSU, TCUN, PSU, 'bama, Georgia, LSU, Clemson, and FSU.

SuperMario

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2023, 01:59:50 PM »
OSU, TCUN, PSU, 'bama, Georgia, LSU, Clemson, and FSU.
That topic has been very irritating to me at times, but I'll give you massive props.. the bold abbreviation is absolutely hilarious. 

Cincydawg

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2023, 02:07:13 PM »
We all recall having "Upset Saturday" somewhere along the way, maybe Week 9 or so, and it never happened this season.


medinabuckeye1

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2023, 02:48:20 PM »
We all recall having "Upset Saturday" somewhere along the way, maybe Week 9 or so, and it never happened this season.
Not only was there no big "Upset Saturday" where a bunch of top teams lost unexpectedly but there were hardly any surprise upsets of any of the top teams all year long.  

Looking at past Ohio State seasons and only counting those where the Buckeyes were good enough to be one of those "top teams":
  • 2023:  11-1, no WTF losses. 
  • 2022:  11-2, no WTF losses.  
  • 2021:  11-2, no WTF losses.  
  • 2020:  7-1, no WTF losses.  
  • 2019:  13-1, no WTF losses.  
  • 2018:  13-1, lost by 29 to a Purdue team that finished below .500.  
  • 2017:  12-2, lost by 31 to an Iowa team that finished 8-5.  
  • 2016:  11-2, no WTF losses.  
  • 2015:  12-1, no WTF losses (I'm basing this on MSU's 12-2 final record).  
  • 2014:  14-1, lost by two scores at home to a VaTech team that finished 7-6.  
That is 10 very good seasons and Ohio State had three "WTF" losses in those.  By that math the current top-10 should have around three "WTF" losses and they have none.  In fact the top-15 only really has one (Zona to MsSt).  So I'll go on:
  • 2013:  12-2, no WTF losses.  
  • 2012:  12-0, no WTF losses.  
  • 2011:  not a top team.  
  • 2010:  12-1, no WTF losses.  
  • 2009:  11-2, lost to a Purdue team that finished below .500.  
  • 2008:  10-3, no WTF losses.  
  • 2007:  11-2, lost to an Illinois team that finished 9-4.  This one is kinda borderline.  
  • 2006:  12-1, no WTF losses.  
  • 2005:  10-2, no WTF losses.  
  • 2004, not a top team.  
  • 2003:  11-2, lost to a Wisconsin team that finished 7-6.  
  • 2002:  14-0, no WTF losses.  
  • 1998:  11-1, lost to an MSU team that finished 6-6.  
  • 1985:  9-3, Two of the losses were to IL and UW teams that finished about .500.  
  • 1984:  9-3, Two of the losses were to PU and UW teams that finished about .500.  
  • 1982:  9-3, Two of the losses were to Stanford and UW teams that finished about .500.  
  • 1981:  9-3, Two of the losses were to UW and MN teams that finished about .500.  
  • 1976:  9-2-1, lost to a Mizzou team that finished 6-5.  
  • 1974:  10-2, lost to an MSU team that finished 7-3-1.  
  • 1972:  9-2, lost to an MSU team that finished .500.  

It seems to me that the "WTF Loss" has been a pretty standard occurrence nationally.  It seems like most years we have found ourselves talking about "Team X" that had a very good record and looked great most of the year but had a "bad loss" to a .500ish or below team.  Maybe this year will prove to be an outlier or maybe this is a product of the Portal enabling the top teams to backfill their positions of weakness.  

FearlessF

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2023, 03:28:15 PM »
I feel the rich are getting richer

and more so, the poor are getting poorer

and its's going to get worse
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

ELA

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2023, 04:53:40 PM »
Looking at the final pre-bowl AP Poll, here are the teams and who they lost to:

  • 13-0 Michigan
  • 13-0 Washington
  • 12-1 Texas, #12 Oklahoma
  • 13-0 FSU
  • 12-1 Bama, #3 Texas
  • 12-1 UGA, #5 Bama
  • 11-1 tOSU, #1 M
  • 11-2 Oregon, #2 UW twice
  • 10-2 Mizzou, #6 UGA, #13 LSU
  • 10-2 PSU, #1 M, #7 tOSU
  • 10-2 Ole Miss, #5 Bama, #6 UGA
  • 10-2 Oklahoma, #22 OkSU, ORV Kansas
  • 9-3 LSU, #4 FSU, #5 Bama, #11 Ole Miss
  • 9-3 Zona, #2 UW, NR MsSt, NR USC
  • 9-3 Notre Dame, #7 tOSU, #16 L'Ville, ORV Clemson
  • 10-3 L'Ville, #4 FSU, NR Pitt, NR UK
  • 11-2 SMU, #12 OU, NR TCU
  • 13-0 Liberty
  • 9-3 NCST, #15 ND, #16 L'Ville, NR Dook
  • 10-3 Iowa, #1 M, #10 PSU, NR Minny
  • 8-4 OrSU, #2 UW, #8 Ore, #14 Zona, NR WSU
  • 9-4 OkSU, #3 TX, NR USA, NR ISU, NR UCF
  • 11-2 Tulane, #11 Ole Miss, #17 SMU
  • 11-1 JMU, NR ApSt
  • 8-4 Tennessee, #5 Bama, #6 UGA, #9 Mizzou, NR UF


I didn't go back to compare to prior years but this seems like an unusually small number of just "WTF" losses.  The highest ranked team to lose to an unranked team is Oklahoma but that was to a Kansas team that was ranked at the time and still has votes.  It isn't a "good" loss, but it wasn't terrible.  Nobody in the top 11 had a loss to a team that finished unranked and nobody in the top 13 had a loss to a team that finished without votes.  That seems odd to me. 
I need to find the post, but there was a CFB account that pointed out that the top seemed "open" this year, but it was only because there were no big upsets.  So all of the good teams were still undefeated, or had just 1 good loss, through the year.  As I've said, college football has always had a massive talent gap between the elite and the rest.  But when only 2 got in, you could get got on a random Saturday in West Lafayette, or Corvallis, or Charlottesville, and that was the equalizer.  Once we added in conference title games, and room for a loss, we devalued those random losses.  Now, with the transfer portal, those teams who always had the best rosters, but might have one major deficiency, can fill it.

The Athletic podcast calls them "Dome Games".  Neutral site, major games.  The better team almost never loses those.  TCU over Michigan last year is the only WTF moment of the full decade of CFP games.  College football kind of worked, if you cared about the national title, because you had to figure out a way to get up 10, 11, or 12 times.  The CCGs and CFP eliminated that, and the transfer portal has eliminated any helmet team ever having any flaws.

Mdot21

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2023, 05:38:40 PM »
That does seem pretty odd.
I'm guessing that we have the same 8 or so contenders each year with this new 12-team format. The question will be which of the transfers will be able to adjust to their new league and which ones will falter.

OSU, TCUN, PSU, 'bama, Georgia, LSU, Clemson, and FSU.
yes, they are....The Champions Up North.

Going to start calling tOSU....The Losers Down South


:)

utee94

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2023, 05:51:43 PM »
I feel the rich are getting richer

and more so, the poor are getting poorer

and its's going to get worse
yup.  And it's bad for the sport.

Mdot21

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2023, 06:02:48 PM »
yup.  And it's bad for the sport.
it's always been a game of the haves vs have nots. just going to the extreme end of that spectrum now. NIL & Portal is accelerating it.

utee94

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2023, 06:20:16 PM »
it's always been a game of the haves vs have nots. just going to the extreme end of that spectrum now. NIL & Portal is accelerating it.
Yup.  It's the acceleration that's the real problem here.

With the previous status quo, at least SOME non-blue-bloods had a chance at putting together a nice run and at least challenging for the MNC, if not winning it.

Like others here, even as a fan of one of the blue bloods that has the advantage in this new era, it just doesn't sit right.  It's not fair, it's less fun, and unfortunately I don't see any way back. 

FearlessF

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2023, 06:33:41 PM »
the real problem will be when the Bluebloods or Helmets group goes from 18 to 8

"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2023, 06:35:15 PM »
PSU out
USC out 
ND out

Clemson & FSU - sorry
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

MrNubbz

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Re: Are the rich already getting richer or is this just a freak thing?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2023, 07:38:23 PM »
only thing going to snuff out the trojans is their economy
"Let us endeavor so to live - that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain

 

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