Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

So, I haven't seen a Michigan game yet this year. How does their secondary look (particularly the safeties)? How are their linebackers in pass coverage? 

From what I've seen so far from Purdue, the routes are designed to attack the secondary HARD. I know people talk about "four verts" but I was watching a clip here where I swear they ran five verts out of an empty set. It seems they want to force the safeties to commit to something and throw to the opposite receiver, kinda like in option football. Force the defense to make a choice, then make the decision that makes them wrong. 

Right now our tight ends are the #1 and #3 receivers on the team by yardage, with the slot receiver at #2. It shows me that Purdue is attacking the linebackers and safeties mercilessly. Somewhat like what Tiller did when he arrived (because B1G linebackers/safeties were built to defend the run).

Any thoughts? I know Michigan lost a lot to the draft, but everyone is talking up their defense. Does it have any weaknesses in coverage?

So, I haven't seen a Michigan game yet this year. How does their secondary look (particularly the safeties)? How are their linebackers in pass coverage?

From what I've seen so far from Purdue, the routes are designed to attack the secondary HARD. I know people talk about "four verts" but I was watching a clip here where I swear they ran five verts out of an empty set. It seems they want to force the safeties to commit to something and throw to the opposite receiver, kinda like in option football. Force the defense to make a choice, then make the decision that makes them wrong.

Right now our tight ends are the #1 and #3 receivers on the team by yardage, with the slot receiver at #2. It shows me that Purdue is attacking the linebackers and safeties mercilessly. Somewhat like what Tiller did when he arrived (because B1G linebackers/safeties were built to defend the run).

Any thoughts? I know Michigan lost a lot to the draft, but everyone is talking up their defense. Does it have any weaknesses in coverage?

LaVert Hill, David Long, and Brandon Watson have all looked better than I expected them too at CB, but the CB's really haven't been tested.

The safeties Josh Mettellus and Tyree Kinnel have been active against the run and have blown up screens and done a great job for the most part. Mettellus blew a coverage and let a UC guy get behind him for a TD but the guy dropped the ball. Kinnel bit HARD on a play-action against Air Force and gave up a long TD- but I feel like that's bound to happen against a triple option team that runs it 60 times a game and passes it like 8. Off the top of my head- other than that- they have both really been solid in coverage.

They just really haven't been tested against the pass to be honest. Hill looks like he could be a special CB though, very impressed with his ability to stay in the hip pocket and he's way better in run support than I thought he would be. Might be blasphemous to say- but he looks an awful lot like Jourdan Lewis to me.

The safeties Kinnel and Mettelus are thumpers, excellent tacklers, both of them fly to the football. Definitely have more "football instincts" than Dymonte Thomas or Delano Hill imo. Neither one of them have the kind of pure athletic ability or speed of Thomas or Delano Hill- but both of the new safeties might wind up being better ball players when it's all said and done though.

Thomas was a freak athlete coming out of high school- borderline 5* kid in the 247Composite- Scout rated him as a 5* the other sites had him rated in the top 60ish- problem is he had had zero football instinct. Delano Hill ran a 4.46 at 6'1, 216 lbs at the NFL Combine and got himself drafted in the 3rd round by the Seahawks- never really looked like a natural or like he had the instincts like Mettelus or Kinnel IMO. He was just a phenomenal athlete for a guy his size and masked some of his deficiencies in terms of instinct and natural feel for the position.

Also, Michigan has faced three of the dreariest passing teams in the country, so tough to tell what to expect there.

Sounds like it'll be an interesting matchup.

And yes, one of the keys will be whether the OL can protect Blough long enough for any of these routes to develop. Purdue hasn't seen a defensive front like this.

The Florida offense is inferior to Purdue.  No offense to the Gators, but they just aren't on Brohms level.  It's true that Florida has more star power, but that doesn't equate to Michigan being able to defend it the same way, or stop it easier.  

Brohm runs an ultra modern pro-style.  Despite some thinking it is pass heavy, it is not.  It is well balanced.  Every play has layers of different options and misdirections.  Some are real options that are progressed through, others are decoys to divide the defense and create weak spots.

This is definitely an interesting match up.  As everyone knows, a good Michigan front 7 can blow it up before it gets rolling.  The Purdue OL will be tested mightily here.  If they can hold, then the Wolverines will be forced to defend something that they've never seen before, or will for the rest of the season.

Oh I definitely agree with you there. Florida's offense isn't good. McElwain can't hold Brohm's jockstrap. Brohm was an excellent hire by Purdue.

Like you said the match-up key will be can the Purdue OL hold up and can Purdue run the ball on Michigan's D to keep them honest. If Purdue can't run at all and they have to throw every down and get into 3rd and long all game long- that just make it that much easier for Brown to dial up pressure and for guys like Rashan Gary, Chase Winovich, Devin Bush, and Khaleke Hudson to have a big impact on the game.

Was thinking about some of the past games from Tiller's heyday in this series, and I was wondering if the 2004 game would end the same way today.

That was when Michigan kicked a FG with about 2 minutes left to take a lead 16-14.  Purdue came back, hit a big catch and run across the middle, and on the edge a FG range the defender went low, flipped the WR in the air, Shazor came in and levelled him, knocked the ball loose and Michigan recovered it to win.

Even though the WR was totally defenseless, I don't think he was defenseless within the definition for targeting.  But I definitely recall, and on YouTube replay it's close, that Shazor launched himself with the crown of his helmet.  My guess is it gets flagged, and not only does Michigan not get the ball, the 15 yards puts Purdue in chip shot FG range for the win, and Shazor is ejected from that game, and is also out for the first half the following week against Michigan State, in the 3OT Braylon Edwards game.

Purdue continued their tailspin right out of the rankings, with another 2 losses in a 4 loss streak (by a combined 10 points).  But you wonder how different everything is if the rules had been different back that.

Damn. That's bringing back memories lol. The game has changed so much. Probably would've happened just like that. I hate all the targeting calls- wish they'd just get rid of them.

Ernest Shazor in Don Brown's defense as a "viper" LB/S would've been a sight to see man. That was a guy who was tailor made for that sort of position. Peppers would've been better playing SS, just because of his lack of size. 5'11, 205 - not the biggest dude to be taking on fullbacks and linemen. Ernest Shazor was every bit of 6-foot-4 and 235+ pounds and was probably one of the strongest dudes on Michigan's team back in that day. He was just an animal. Speaking of Braylon- I actually saw Braylon a couple weeks ago at a bar in Royal Oak. He was drunk as shit wearing sunglasses at night inside a dark bar. Surprising I know!

Both of those guys should've had very long, productive NFL careers. What a waste of unbelievable talent.

Trying to figure out how that 2004 Michigan team lost 3 games, and had to pull out miracle wins against Minnesota, Purdue and Michigan State to avoid having more will make your head hurt.

Trying to figure out where they weren't great, and I'm stuck on RB depth, OL and LBs.

You had Henne and Hart in the backfield.

Edwards, Avant and Breaston at WR

Woodley and Massey flanking Branch and Watson on the DL

Then the DBS are the most ridiculous of all, Marlin Jackson and Leon Hall at corner, with Shazor and Mundy (who never fully realized his potential at UM) at safety.

The OL was fine but not elite.  Baas was great at center.  Jake Long became great, but was a freshman RT.  Then Lentz, Riley, Stenavich?  LB was McClintock, Pierre Woods and Roy Manning.  That, and Underwood being an underwhelming backup to Hart is about all I got.

They didn't call him LLLoyd Carr for nothing.

The 3 games they lost were @ ND in a true frosh Chad Henne's first ever road start and his 2nd ever start, @ Ohio State and then in that epic Rose Bowl game by 1 point on a last second FG in which Vince Young just dominated Michigan. That was VY's coming out party- and he did the same thing to USC the very next Rose Bowl. Those 3 miracle comeback wins they had to fight for- should've never even been in those positions to be honest.

Hart didn't really get the start until the 3rd or maybe even 4th game of that season. Carr did everything he could to basically hand the job to David Underwood- the 6', 220 pound 5* from Texas. Turns out the 5'8, 190 pound true frosh 3* from upstate NY was a special back. Carr played favorites to big-shot recruits and he was as conservative as it gets when playing young guys. He promised Henne he'd play- that's how he got the 5* out of Penn State's backyard- and he didn't have a choice but to play Henne after Gutierrez got hurt.

RB depth wasn't that big an issue- as once Hart became the starter he never left the field and was just all-around good at everything.
Biggest issues with that team were Henne's inexperience as a true frosh QB, the OL just being above average and not really anything special, and the LB's being a pretty big weakpoint.

That WR talent was insane. That really masked a lot of Henne's deficiencies. After that year you really thought Henne would develop into something incredible- but it never happened. Looking back he was probably as successful as he was as a true frosh bc he had a truly special RB in Hart to hand the ball off too and a group of WR's who were just excellent. Jason Avant played in the NFL for like a decade and he never dropped anything at Michigan- the quintessential #2 possession WR who could run good routes, hold onto the ball, make tough catches and move the chains. Braylon Edwards was a freak of nature- he made tough jump ball circus catches look easy and he had the size and speed combo where he could take a 5 yard pass, break a tackle, turn on the jets and take it 60. Breaston was as elusive and slippery as it got- throw him a screen or a slant he's getting YAC almost at will. That WR trio and that RB made Henne that year.

I think had they just started Mike Hart from day 1 they probably beat ND and grind out that W to finish that year 10-2. I don't think they were going to beat Tressell in Columbus- JT just had Carr's number like Carr had Cooper's- and I don't think there was anyway they were going to beat Vince Young that day. Young was just doing whatever he wanted to Michigan. He was just unstoppable.