2023 NFL Thread

[Cincydawg]

I can see how a great second baseman might make only a decent SS, and a great SS might make only a decent 2B.

Maybe the former has great range, but a slightly less strong arm, and the latter has lesser range but a cannon.  The great third basemen often just have excellent reflexes at the hot corner (and 3 step range, like Brooks Robinson).  A second baseman may need to be able to get to more balls many steps away.  Most things hit to third are scorched.

[Mdot21]

Deion is special because he was the best man to man cover guy that has ever played the game. But outside of that one skill- admittedly a very important and unique skill- he was virtually a liability everywhere else. He was terrible in run support and he almost flat out refused to tackle. 

If I’m starting a dream team I’d pick him as a starter bc the other guys could cover up for where he lacks. 

But if I have to just pick one guy to play on a team give me both Woodson’s over Deion imo. 

They just did a lot of other little things on defense so much better than Deion did and were both far more versatile and far more disruptive when it came to turning the ball over and converting said turnovers into points. 

Rod and Charles both tied with the NFL record for defensive touchdowns at 13. Rod had 71 INTs and 20 forced fumbles. Charles had 65 INTs and 33 forced fumbles. Rod recorded 1,150 tackles and 13.5 sacks. Charles 1,220 tackles and 20 sacks.

Deion had 520 tackles and 1 sack and forced 9 fumbles in his career. Deion had 53 INTs and scored 9 defensive TDs. But man could Deion cover in man to man.

[ELA]

This is a weird statement imo.

It's like saying a guy is the best defensive second baseman ever (a la Bill Mazeroski).
Okay, that's great and all, but if he was that great a defender, he'd be playing shortstop. 

cover corner > DB
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no?

You don't like your corners to contribute at all in run support, or really tackling of any kind?

[Mdot21]

Bucs Pro Bowl LB Devin White has requested a trade. 

Dream scenario here....Lions get either Jalen Carter or Will Anderson to fall to them at #6, they then turn around and trade their #18 pick, a 3rd, and the 5th rd they just picked up for Okudah and trade for Devin White.

Their fortunes on defense would change overnight. A guy can dream, right? 

[MrNubbz]

um,ya fantasize what ever. If the Lions take the hardware before the Browns like the Cubs did before the Indians,then it's a given the Almighty hates us. Or has a cruel sense of humor

[rook119]

Well the Lions have officially given up on Jeff Okudah.  Giving him to Atlanta for a 5th round pick?  He seemed fine when healthy.  He clearly was never living up to being the #3 pick, but he wasn't unplayable.

Appears to be a salary cap move, but who are they clearing cap space for?

Okudah is arguably the best defensive player drafted in round 1 that year (Jordyn Brooks is a solid but unspectacular MLB but blew out his ACL in 2022). Just a wasteland of busts and terrible injuries on the defensive side. 

In true Washington style Chase Young's injury was mismanaged leading to the Washington front office to conclude they did everytihng right and blamed Chase.  

Thought Simmons would be a star and he's only been eh fine I guess. 

[Mdot21]

Lions WR Jameson Williams suspended 6 games for violating NFL gambling policy. 

Great. Kid missed most of last year recovering from an ACL and he’s going to miss the first 6 games this year because of gambling. Wtf. 

[847badgerfan]

Lions WR Jameson Williams suspended 6 games for violating NFL gambling policy.

Great. Kid missed most of last year recovering from an ACL and he’s going to miss the first 6 games this year because of gambling. Wtf.

Cephus for a year.

Lions just released him.

Sounds like the Lions front office is also involved in the gambling.

[847badgerfan]

Whoa!!!

[MrNubbz]

WTF is wrong with these mallet heads like the gobs and gobs of green already thrown at them isn't enough.Release them w/o pay of course

[FearlessF]

fired and black balled from ever working in the NFL seems appropriate 

[OrangeAfroMan]

You don't like your corners to contribute at all in run support, or really tackling of any kind?

If a CB's run support ability is even mentioned, I think the conversation has gone astray. 
No DC in football relies on their CB to have any specific job when it comes to the run defense.  The DE/OLB sets the edge, DTs cause fumbles, LBs get tackles, and safeties clean up.
If someone values a dynamic safety over a CB, that's fine, but don't pretend shutting down half the field like Deion did isn't the #1 best thing a DB can do.

[OrangeAfroMan]

There are positional hierarchies in sports (a la 2nd baseman vs SS).

What are safeties?
Few great players start out at safety.  They may be a LB that is too small, but fast.  They may be a CB that isn't super fast or lacks good swivel in their hips.  Maybe they're too tall to be agile enough play CB.  There's many things they could start out as, but a deficiency is likely behind their move to safety.  Hell, they could be a great 2-way player in HS, and they play safety as a sort of breather on defense.
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2nd basemen are failed shortstops.  Period.  Their range keeps them on the field, but their arm moved them off SS.  LF and RFers are positions, but they lack the range of a CF.  The RF has a good arm, so the LF is the least toolsy player in the OF.
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Same with guards vs tackles in football.  A great blocker that lacks length plays inside.  Tackles need to be a certain height with a certain wingspan.  
I'm sure there's a bunch of nuanced reasons hockey players play certain positions, too, but I don't know shit about it.
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I thought all of this was common knowledge.  Maybe not.

[FearlessF]

If a CB's run support ability is even mentioned, I think the conversation has got astray. 
No DC in football relies on their CB to have any specific job when it comes to the run defense.  

I disagree

if you're not going to play the run and tackle, you shouldn't be playing defense