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Topic: Misfits Thread

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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5572 on: August 02, 2020, 06:14:05 PM »
To me, the act of voting is the opiate of the masses.
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5573 on: August 02, 2020, 06:19:46 PM »
I haven't liked a candidate since Bush 1.

Anyway.. the founders envisioned people serving the nation, and then returning to work. 

We do not have that right now. Not even close. We are all here to serve THEM.
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U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5574 on: August 02, 2020, 06:22:11 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:07:03 PM
The Founders COULD have set this all up quite simply,  Majority rules etc.  You vote straight out for your representative and that is the end of that.  But, they didn't.  Why not?

Because they feared the will of the majority suppressing the minority, so they installed very clear attempted safe guards to separate the people from government elected offices, with the one exception.

That is why this difference between a democracy and a republic is so important.  They may have been wrong, but their intent is abundantly clear, to find ways of protesting us from majority rule by the masses.

These were educated men, wealthy in many cases, they did not trust "the masses".
That's all fine but not really relevant to my point, which is that calling something a republic or democracy is not really meaningful.  A democracy is about the people choosing the government and a republic is about the leaders being chosen by the people.  They are not different.  Democrats and Republicans aren't arguing about whether we should have a democracy or a republic.  The Democratic-Republican party did argue for expanding the vote.  

In any event, whether you want to call it a democracy, a republic, or some sort of halfsy, efforts which expressly thwart the people from choosing their government are antidemocratic and cause a lot of division and lack of belief in the government.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5575 on: August 02, 2020, 06:23:48 PM »
I concluded many years ago that voting in this guy or that gal to office wouldn't change anything substantively.  He or she won't fix anything in reality.  They move some deck chairs around, one is as bad as the other, in my opinion.

I think "we" are deluded into thinking that if OUR guy wins the election, it will all be transformed into something really nice.

BS.

Maybe this time of year I'm a bit more negative than normal, dunno.

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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5576 on: August 02, 2020, 06:26:25 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on August 02, 2020, 06:22:11 PM
In any event, whether you want to call it a democracy, a republic, or some sort of halfsy, efforts which expressly thwart the people from choosing their government are antidemocratic and cause a lot of division and lack of belief in the government.
The issue here, quite clearly, is what the Founders intended.  And very clearly, it was not a democracy.  Otherwise, we would have something very different, perhaps just a House of Pres and a popularly elected President.  That would be a representative democracy, which we clearly do not have.

The reason WHY is important, and significant.
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5577 on: August 02, 2020, 06:29:52 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:26:25 PM
The issue here, quite clearly, is what the Founders intended.  And very clearly, it was not a democracy.  Otherwise, we would have something very different, perhaps just a House of Pres and a popularly elected President.  That would be a representative democracy, which we clearly do not have.

The reason WHY is important, and significant.
I mean they called them electors. Makes you think they believed in elections. Maybe not maybe they wanted a king but they fooled me.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5578 on: August 02, 2020, 06:31:33 PM »
It's clearly NOT a democracy, but design, quite clearly.  It might be wrong, but it's not a democracy.

Words have meaning.

Let me know how your crusade to get rid of the EC is going.  I find most folks incensed about stuff like that really do nothing more than post umbrage on social media.

Yay.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5579 on: August 02, 2020, 06:33:17 PM »
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5580 on: August 02, 2020, 06:34:49 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:31:33 PM
It's clearly NOT a democracy, but design, quite clearly.  It might be wrong, but it's not a democracy.

Words have meaning.

Let me know how your crusade to get rid of the EC is going.  I find most folks incensed about stuff like that really do nothing more than post umbrage on social media.

Yay.
Part of the battle is people erroneously thinking the founders didn't want democracy in the first place
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5581 on: August 02, 2020, 06:43:13 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 02, 2020, 06:23:48 PM
I concluded many years ago that voting in this guy or that gal to office wouldn't change anything substantively.  He or she won't fix anything in reality.  They move some deck chairs around, one is as bad as the other, in my opinion.

I think "we" are deluded into thinking that if OUR guy wins the election, it will all be transformed into something really nice.

BS.

Maybe this time of year I'm a bit more negative than normal, dunno.


Along these lines, I've started looking at elected officials being like baseball managers.  They're not going to do anything especially good to improve my life, but they can do things to mess it up.

The best baseball managers simply don't get in the way.  Poor managers tend to do a lot, but have a detrimental effect on outcomes.  
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5582 on: August 02, 2020, 06:47:19 PM »
I don't see how anyone could advocate for "the masses" having more influence than less influence.  I'm all for the freedom and influence of a responsible, informed populace, but when did we have that?  Ever?  Access to information has increased infinitely since the founding of our country and I can't help but think a family in the middle of Montana was better informed with the pony express than the average person living in a big city today.
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5583 on: August 02, 2020, 07:42:25 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 02, 2020, 06:43:13 PM
Along these lines, I've started looking at elected officials being like baseball managers.  They're not going to do anything especially good to improve my life, but they can do things to mess it up.

The best baseball managers simply don't get in the way.  Poor managers tend to do a lot, but have a detrimental effect on outcomes. 
Well said.  I tend agree ( but well said regardless)
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5584 on: August 02, 2020, 07:45:33 PM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on August 02, 2020, 06:19:46 PM
I haven't liked a candidate since Bush 1.

Anyway.. the founders envisioned people serving the nation, and then returning to work.

We do not have that right now. Not even close. We are all here to serve THEM.
This.   So much.....this.  It is beyond frustrating.  
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #5585 on: August 02, 2020, 07:57:35 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on August 02, 2020, 06:47:19 PM
I don't see how anyone could advocate for "the masses" having more influence than less influence.  I'm all for the freedom and influence of a responsible, informed populace, but when did we have that?  Ever?  Access to information has increased infinitely since the founding of our country and I can't help but think a family in the middle of Montana was better informed with the pony express than the average person living in a big city today.
Masses got it right in 2016
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